Clear Info Needed!


#1

Regarding the SSPX.

I know there’s other threads on this but they seem to have conflicting views… so, sorry to do this but could somebody please give me some clear, up-to-date, precise, Catholic information regarding the SSPX Mass?

Is the Mass valid? Should the Mass be attended? There’s EF Masses and NO Masses - they’re all good and valid. What about SSPX? What is the Roman Catholic Church’s views/positions with SSPX? Are there reasons why Roman Catholics (are SSPX members Roman Catholics?) should not approve of the SSPX and its members?

As you can see, I just need info! Perhaps some good website links… but the main think is that its authoritive and up-to-date :slight_smile:

THANKS SO MUCH!! :):):slight_smile:
God Bless,
ClemtheCatholic


#2

If there is no other mass available then go to the SSPX: i.e.,: within 200 miles on a Sunday.

If there is any other licit mass (Anglican Use, Ukrainian, or other rite Catholic) available go there first.

Only go to confession to an SSPX priest if you are in danger of dying, Eg., you are in a hospice. You are dying soon. There is no licit priest available but an SSPX priest is then you may go to confession to him.

Instructions from our Bishop:

  1. Roman Catholics of the Diocese of Calgary should not attend St. XXX, nor receive sacraments from any priest who is a member of the Society of Saint Pius X unless in dire emergency or danger of death.

calgarydiocese.ca/news-a-events/29-parishes/907-important-clarification-re-st-dennis-church.html


#3

The SSPX is motivated by the spirit of disobedience. You subject yourself to that spirit if you cooperate with them. Far better to allow the Church to call them back to obedience while we adhere to our discipline.


#4

Where did you find that? I have never seen such a statement in the diocese.


#5

These folks are not part of the Church right now, so whatever they are doing, no matter how much is looks like a Catholic Church Mass, is not.

from your Pope:

However it is clear that the doctrinal questions remain, and until they are clarified the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.

wdtprs.com/blog/2012/07/a-note-about-the-sspx-and-their-status-in-the-church-or-not/


#6

Yes

Should the Mass be attended?

Complicated. While valid, the SSPX are in an irregular status with Rome. They are not permitted to offer mass to the public, and are possibly not supposed to offer mass at all.

There’s EF Masses and NO Masses - they’re all good and valid. What about SSPX? What is the Roman Catholic Church’s views/positions with SSPX? Are there reasons why Roman Catholics (are SSPX members Roman Catholics?) should not approve of the SSPX and its members?

If one is devoted to the EF mass, and there is no group in good standing that offers the EF, then one may attend mass at an SSPX chapel. Attending at a Sunday mass offered by the SSPX would count towards one’s Sunday obligation. However, one should not receive communion at the SSPX chapel, because of their irregular status (one is only obliged to go to mass on Sunday, but is not obliged to receive communion).

As you can see, I just need info! Perhaps some good website links… but the main think is that its authoritive and up-to-date :slight_smile:

THANKS SO MUCH!! :):):slight_smile:
God Bless,
ClemtheCatholic


#7

[quote="runningdude, post:6, topic:306007"]

If one is devoted to the EF mass, and there is no group in good standing that offers the EF, then one may attend mass at an SSPX chapel.

[/quote]

I don't think so. Could you provide an authoritative (Vatican) source for this?


#8

If you look for Tridentine Mass, now Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, perhaps you should visit the website of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter and find where this Form is being celebrated. You should also look around in the web to find out if there is a Latin Mass community in your (arch)diocese. I found one in mine, and I am really thrilled to be able to attend the Mass in the usus antiquor on Sunday :slight_smile:

Other than that, I find no attraction to SSPX. After all, I believe that obedience to the Church is a must. I keep the example of St. Francis of Assisi before my eyes all the time: what he did in the Church is unprecedented and perhaps nobody will ever do anything similar; yet, he remained faithful to his vow of obedience, to the Church and to the Holy Father, because he understood the sacredness of the office of the ordained ministers, above all else, of the Pope.

I do pray that soon enough SSPX may return to be a fully Catholic community.


#9

[quote="Julia_Mae, post:7, topic:306007"]
I don't think so. Could you provide an authoritative (Vatican) source for this?

[/quote]

Here is an interview with Cardinal Hoyos, who was, at the time, the Prefect for the Congregation for the Clergy.

traditioninaction.org/Questions/F032_Royos_SSPX.html

renewamerica.com/columns/mershon/070410

You will note that the Cardinal (who is the authority on which clergy are in schism, noted that the SSPX, as an order, is not, in fact, in schism.

And this as well, from the Ecclesia Dei commision ( which is charged with the status of the SSPX regarding a letter on the very subject that the E.C. Commisiion responded to. The response was made public. This response was intented to be made public to counter some misconceptions from the previous letter.

cfnews.org/sspx-obl.htm

Unfortunately, as you will understand, we have no way of controlling what is done with our letters by their recipients. Our letter of 27 September 2002, which was evidently cited in The Remnant and on various websites, was intended as a private communication dealing with the specific circumstances of the person who wrote to us. What was presented in the public forum is an abbreviated version of that letter which omits much of our pastoral counsel. Since a truncated form of this letter has now become public, we judge it appropriate to present the larger context of our response.

In a previous letter to the same correspondent we had already indicated the canonical status of the Society of St. Pius X which we will summarize briefly here.

1.) The priests of the Society of St. Pius X are validly ordained, but they are suspended from exercising their priestly functions. To the extent that they adhere to the schism of the late Archbishop Lefebvre, they are also excommunicated.

2.) Concretely this means that the Masses offered by these priests are valid, but illicit i.e., contrary to the law of the Church.

Points 1 and 3 in our letter of 27 September 2002 to this correspondent are accurately reported. His first question was "Can I fulfill my Sunday obligation by attending a Pius X Mass" and our response was:
"1. In the strict sense you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X."
His second question was "Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass" and we responded stating:
"2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance **at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. **If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."

His third question was: "Is it a sin for me to contribute to the Sunday collection at a Pius X Mass" to which we responded:
"3. It would seem that a modest contribution to the collection at Mass could be justified."
Further, the correspondent took the Commission to task for not doing its job properly and we responded thus:
"This Pontifical Commission does not have the authority to coerce Bishops to provide for the celebration of the Mass according to the 1962 Roman Missal. Nonetheless, we are frequently in contact with Bishops and do all that we can to see that this provision is made. However, this provision also depends on the number of people who desire the 'traditional' Mass, their motives and the availability of priests who can celebrate it.
"You also state in your letter that the Holy Father has given you a 'right' to the Mass according to the 1962 Roman Missal. This is not correct. It is true that he has asked his brother Bishops to be generous in providing for the celebration of this Mass, but he has not stated that it is a 'right'. Presently it constitutes an exception to the Church's law and may be granted when the local Bishop judges it to be a valid pastoral service and when he has the priests who are available to celebrate it. Every Catholic has a right to the sacraments (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 843), but he does not have a right to them according to the rite of his choice."
We hope that this puts in a clearer light the letter about which you asked us.
With prayerful best wishes for this New Year of Our Lord 2003, I remain
Sincerely yours in Christ,
Rev. Msgr. Camille Perl, Secretary

So the official Vatican response is that attendance is not recommend. The Mass is valid, but not licit. It does fulfill your Sunday obligation. If you go there simply to partake of the EF Mass, with no intention of seperating oneself from the Holy See, there is no sin.


#10

A Pope in 2009 (Ace of Spades) trumps a Cardinal in 2007 (King of Diamonds), or a Commission in 2003 (Queen of Hearts)

"As long as the Society (of St Pius X) does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church" (Pope Benedict XVI, Letter of 10 March 2009)

Cardinal Castrillón Hoyos's interview was in 8 February 2007

January 8, 2003, the Vatican's Ecclesia Dei Commission

Circumstances changed between 2003 and 2009.


#11

As the Cardinal noted, their Mass is not a licit one, which is exactly what +Benedict stated, so there is no contridiction.

The question was if the Mass was valid and if it fulfilled your Obligation, and the Pope did not say otherwise, but simply renoted the illicit nature of their Mass and ministry


#12

What does “It’s ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church” mean then?

To the OP - Bottom line: phone your Chancery office and ask them.


#13

That any ministry they might have is not licit. That is the definition of ‘licit’ to be in compliance with the legislation of the Church.

That is distinct from being an invalid ministry, such as anything done by the Womenpriest organization. That is an illicit minisitry in addition to being an invalid one.

Really Deacon, you should have covered this in your Canon Law courses. I did when I was in formation, (with Dr. Ed Peters even :thumbsup:)


#14

Sorry, nothing is ever clear with SSPX.

So, the excommunications were lifted. But now they’ve ejected Bp. Williamson. So is he excommunicated again or not? Is the chapel you want to attend supportive of him?

Has the SSPX priest been granted faculties by the local Ordinary? Well then, maybe the Mass is valid but illicit.

If there’s no other Extraordinary Form Masses available, and you want to see it for yourself, I’d say go. I’ve heard they do a real good job with the rubrics. In a case like this, I think one could easily plead ignorance or confusion if it did turn out to be not permitted/sinful. But that’s just my opinion; I’m a layman, not a canon lawyer, and not a priest.

Like I said, nothing is ever clear with the SSPX. You could try asking your pastor. If he says it’s okay, you’re clear. He took the responsibility onto himself.


#15

Not deacon yet, but I do know the difference between valid and licit.:stuck_out_tongue: My High School teaching bias is showing through - I always teach by asking questions - because if someone tells me the answer they remember it.:wink:

So they are not compliant with the legislation of the Church…

So what do we do in regard to other priests whose status is valid but illicit?

We do what my Bishop said - stay away from celebrating the sacraments with them unless in a dire emergency.

OP It may be different in your diocese - which is why I recommend phoning the Chancery. If someone has enough nous to post the question on a forum, they are capable of picking up a phone. If the Chancery says X then no matter how many people say Y on here; X is what counts in your diocese.


#16

Thank you for your trouble. I must point out, though, that is was the Vatican’s position 9 years ago. The situation deteriorated and as of summer of 2012, the SSPX has no canonical status. From a previous post:.

However it is clear that the doctrinal questions remain, and until they are clarified the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.

This is the situation as of 2012.


#17

Or, as Cardinal Hoyos noted, you can go, but it is not recommended, and in determining the as you put it, a Prefect of the appropriate Congregation (King of Diamonds) or a the Commission that exists to examine the SSPX (Queen of Hearts) trumps a Jack of Clubs local Orindary (Jack of Clubs) .:wink:

(and Pope Benedict has said nothing to the contrary,)


#18

Can anyone tell me why would he/she want to attend to SSPX rather than (fully) Catholic events?

Is it the Tridentine Mass?

If not, what else could it possibly be?

:confused:


#19

[quote="R_C, post:18, topic:306007"]
Can anyone tell me why would he/she want to attend to SSPX rather than (fully) Catholic events?

Is it the Tridentine Mass?

If not, what else could it possibly be?

:confused:

[/quote]

Not ever having gone to one, I cannot say. But most likely it is a desire to go to an EF Mass. Perhaps the SSPX is closer than any other EF Mass that is in regular status with the Church.

Fortunetly, our Archdiocese has had EF Masses available for quite awhile, several are offered accross the diocese by diocesan priests. But There are quite a number of dioceses where the bishops have been reluctant to adopt the EF Mass in a widespread way (for a variety of reasons).


#20

Which is exactly why I wonder :confused:

Nowadays Catholics who want to have the Roman Rite Mass celebrated in the Extraordinary Form can gather in a stable community (no minimum number of faithful mentioned in the Summorum Pontificum) and ask the Pastor, if not, the Bishop…and if the Bishop does not want to, the Holy See :smiley:

The bishop is strongly requested to satisfy their wishes. If he cannot arrange for such celebration to take place, the matter should be referred to the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei”.

What if there is only one person who prefers the EF? Well, even Abraham did not dare to bother the Lord for less than 10 people :o So I’d say: simply attend the Ordinary Form. I can understand why would one prefer to attend the E.F., but the O.F. is a Holy Mass and is to be honored as such, no more and no less than the E.F. As Cardinal Prefect Canizares said not too long ago: “there are two forms of the same Rite but there is only one Rite.”


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