Cleavage

I guess I must be getting old. In my youth a young lady (guess that ages me too) wouldn’t dream of showing cleavage unless it was at a fancy ball and even then, just a hint. I have a job where I look at thousands of photos for church books and I am stunned at how many women wear very low cut and tight fitting tops. Bra straps showing everwhere too.

wow, no only have fashions changed but modestly levels as well I guess.:shrug:

vsedriver said : "In my youth a young lady wouldn’t dream of showing cleavage unless it was at a fancy ball and even then, just a hint… not only have fashions changed, but modestly levels as well I guess."

At different times, different things are in vogue (or modest).

Yeah, if you want to see some REAL Modest women, just go over to Saudi Arabia.
There, a woman is considered NAKED, if any part of her body is seen in public.
And, there, not only is it a custom, but they have REAL Fashion Police, who will arrest any show-ers of body parts.

On the other extreme, is a certain tribe in Africa.
There, a woman wears (essentially) a belt around her waist … with all the rest of her body exposed.
This is modest dressing.
And, if a woman showed herself without that belt, she is immodest.

Swimming suits in the 1930s covered necks, arms, and legs.
If a woman pulled the leg coverings up a bit, that is immodest.

I don’t see society becoming less modest.
I just see that people are happy with what others are wearing (or not wearing).
If not, they would RISE UP and complain (which is easy with the 24-hour news cycles.

If a particular Catholic Church (like the OP’s) would tell its Parishioners to NOT wear certain things to Church (or, for Church pictures), then if a person violated that request, it could be considered immodest behavior.

In church etiquette, there is a code of dress. There is dress appropriate for the beach, and appropriate for being in the presence of God in his church. It is respect to our Lord. I have seen women dress inappropriately for Mass, and as their daughters grew up they have followed the same pattern. I think back when I was in school, fashion was modest. Also, nuns who taught religion set a standard for church wear. That is missing today. It needs to be a part of the CYO also a part of mom’s teaching daughters. I heard a priest once say that he spoke to a lady about her low-cut dress and she said that if she couldn’t wear the dress she would not come to church anymore. The general rule is that you must be covered 4 inches below the neckline–last I heard. I also do not like shorts worn to Mass. If the Mass is held outside for a parish picnic, I would say casual is okay. I think people forget who we are honoring in worship and thanksgiving. There are lots of styles out there that are respectful or even add a jacket or sweater. My opinion.

From the eleventh century to the Victorian Era lots of cleavage showing used to be the norm.

OP, have you ever watched popular movies from the 1930’s? There is little new under the sun.

Well if you.go around drawing attention.to your sex, from all & sundry, i guess you cant complain that men are viewing women as sex objects. Cant have it both ways.

At different times, different things are in vogue (or modest).

What was truth a thousand years ago is the truth today. Fashion changes with the times but not what’s true and the truth is women should not be running around with ¾ of their breasts hanging out of their shirt!

I am a health man and I can tell you that I loose respect for women whenever I see that. It makes you look cheap. Before any of you ladies squeeze yourself into one of those tight, low cut shirts why don’t you think of your sons, fathers, cousins, nephews and all the rest of the male members of your family who don’t want to see your breasts and feel bad when you let them hang out and show them to everybody.

Yes, people seem to have forgotten what modesty is and if you think cleavage is bad, how about those super tight stretchy pants which leave nothing to the imagination. You know, the ones not designed to be worn as actual pants, but are. It’s a lack of self respect and a skewed idea of what is important (having people look at you in the wrong way).

I serve as a usher at Mass. One morning a young woman came with an extremely low-cut. And she was rather, um, well-endowed to boot.

I asked her to leave because she was not appropriately dressed and she gave me some argument about “God doesn’t care how I dress.”

I said “No, God probably doesn’t care but we do.”

She left in a huff and went to complain to the priest who backed me up. :smiley:

Modesty threads always degenerate into shouting matches. But I’ve yet to hear an explanation for why a woman would WANT to show lots of cleavage.

I’ve yet to meet a woman who admits to LIKING it when they catch men ogling their chest. On the contrary, I’ve heard from plenty of women who claim it really irritates them that when they’re having a conversation, the man’s eyes never quite rise to meet hers…

I realize men and women think differently, so here’s my tip to those ladies: If you wear clothes that show cleavage, most men will stare at it. What’s more, that’s what most men will REMEMBER about you. Not your eyes (they won’t even know what color they are), not how you made them laugh, how smart of capable you are or that you had lots in common… Just the boobs. Pretty much every one of you has more lovable characteristics than that (possibly some celebrities excepted). My suggestion is that you dress in ways that encourage people to notice those things, rather than just flesh. It’s true that a saint would notice the best in you regardless of how you dress. Sadly there are few saints out there.

Yes, I understand that women dress for how they look to other women at least as much as for how they look to men and that women (most of ‘em) are not likely to ogle. Here, it’s a power play. I’ve got it and you wish you did too, don’tcha’ sista’? I submit that that’s probably not the best motive either… :wink:

So you are saying she is “asking for it?”

Oh please, if cleavage makes you forget that a woman is a person as opposed to an object, you are the one with the problem.

You’re bragging and smiling about the fact that you acted as a bouncer and kept a woman out of mass? Even if your action was really necessary, shouldn’t you feel sad about doing it, as opposed to proud?

That would be the last time I went to a catholic church. Quite frankly, I grew up protestant and after treatment like that, I would be right back to my old church and even more grateful for the protestant reformation.

Suppose she had worn a bikini to mass. Should I have not said anything and allowed her to stay?

Even if your action was really necessary, shouldn’t you feel sad about doing it, as opposed to proud?

I wouldn’t say I was proud; just trying to maintain a level of common decency, that’s all.

That would be the last time I went to a catholic church. Quite frankly, I grew up protestant and after treatment like that, I would be right back to my old church and even more grateful for the protestant reformation.

So. You want to be allowed to wear inappropriate attire to Mass, and if you’re not allowed to you would leave the True Church and go back to one that was founded by dissident Catholics. Why not just exercise some common sense and dress a little more conservatively?

Look, on the rare occasion that I go to church, I won’t even wear jeans. I hear the voice of my grandmother in my head telling me that I have to wear my “Sunday best”. But there are a lot of people in this world that weren’t raised by religious old women who insist on showing respect at all times.

Yes, if I were one of those people and I went to church only to hear that while god loves me, I’m not good enough for the people there, I would leave and go somewhere where people wouldn’t rather I miss out on church just so that they can feel superior to me. A private word from someone of the same sex after mass would have sufficed.

In the West breasts didn’t used to be sexualized.

Is it the FAULT of a person who doesn’t lock their doors if they are burglarized? Nope. The guilt and blame lies with the burglar. Nobody berates a burglary victim for their insufficient safeguard measures. But lock your doors anyways, folks. Protesting later that it wasn’t your fault doesn’t get your stuff back. Locks don’t 100 guarantee anything either, of course. But they sure help. Modesty is the same way.

Suit yourself. :shrug:

You’re called to bring people to god. Who do you think your evangelizing if you turn people away from church because of how they look? (And then bragging about it on a public forum?) What message does that send? What do you think that woman now thinks of catholics, if she was told that she’s good enough for god but not for them?

You got to be “right” and set “standards”, but at what cost? Was a low cut shirt really worth pushing someone away like that, rather than showing them love and acceptance, which very well may have softened them to fraternal correction, or even better, helped them understand and want to follow god’s laws?

Respect everyone as persons. Think of women as your sisters/mothers. Look at a woman’s face, not her body.

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