co-mediatrix


#1

how should i approach a discussion on Mary being co-mediatrix?

specifically;

[quote=“blessedchild, on another forum”]And yet Catholics refer to Mary as “Queen of Heaven” and “Co-Redemptrix”. The only biblical reference to the “Queen of Heaven” involves idolatry. God provided for mankind’s redemption through the sacrificial death of His Son, not through or along with, the suffering of Jesus’ mother.

[/quote]

helpage, please…


#2

the Church does teach that Mary is the co-redemtric–co meaning with–the Church has taught this in many encyclicals—it has not be extraordinarily defined but it is still infallible because it has been taught by the ordinary magisterium for a constant period of time—the grwoing controversy is whether the doctrine should be defined extraordinarily—so as Catholics ur obligated to believe in this --please see ludwig ott’s book Fundamentals of catholic dogma


#3

FYI, here’s the thread… whatsonchristianrock.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=13544


#4

[quote=marineboy]the Church does teach that Mary is the co-redemtric–co meaning with–the Church has taught this in many encyclicals—it has not be extraordinarily defined but it is still infallible because it has been taught by the ordinary magisterium for a constant period of time—the grwoing controversy is whether the doctrine should be defined extraordinarily—so as Catholics ur obligated to believe in this --please see ludwig ott’s book Fundamentals of catholic dogma
[/quote]

I like it when the church says its followers are obligated to believe the latest dogma. This is apostasy friend, read God’s Word and see if you read any thing about the magesterium, or Mary being co redemptrist, or mediatrix. Sola scritura vs. the changing and growing traditions of the RCC. When will it end? Once a lie is told there are needed many to vainly justify it.


#5

[quote=excatholic]I like it when the church says its followers are obligated to believe the latest dogma. This is apostasy friend, read God’s Word and see if you read any thing about the magesterium, or Mary being co redemptrist, or mediatrix. Sola scritura vs. the changing and growing traditions of the RCC. When will it end? Once a lie is told there are needed many to vainly justify it.
[/quote]

Why don’t you tell us what you think the Catholic Church means by the title of Co-Redemptrix or Mediatrix. Do you even know what the prefix “co-” means? Tell us your views, please, so we can correct you. It wouldn’t be charitable of us to let you remain in error.


#6

Ever notice that the Bible unties the suffering of Mary with the suffering of Jesus?

Luke 2:34 And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother: Behold this child is set for the fall and for the resurrection of many in Israel and for a sign which shall be contradicted. 35 And thy own soul a sword shall pierce, that, out of many hearts thoughts may be revealed.

God Bless,
Doug


#7

Also, as far as the Queen of Heaven title, fundamentalists will claim that this refers to pagan worship, as the title is given to a pagan goddess in scripture.

What they don’t realize though, is if they are correct and a queen in Heaven can only be a pagan reference, then God used pagan imagery in Revelation when He showed the woman in Heaven wearing a crown.

God did not use pagan imagery, therefore their argument is defeated.

Also, they have no problem calling Jesus King of Kings, yet look how that very same title is used in scripture:

Eze 26:7 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

God Bless,
Doug


#8

Ace, I suggest you go back to that forum one last time, e-mail every Catholic in there to get out, and leave and don’t go back. Here’s why:

You will never be treated fairly,
Without adequate skills you will only reinforce their bigotry,
You are tempting them to blaspheme God even further.

You might want to challenge them to meet you on a much more civilized board, where none of their misrepresentations and lies will hold up to any scrutiny. Stop wasting your time there. If they are so sure of themselves they can meet me at
envoymagazine.com/forum/FORUM.asp?FORUM_ID=6
or in here.

I learned my lesson by being banned twice on a similar forum, I guess they weren’t such “contenders” after all.
Lastly, don’t send any private messages to anyone, like the last anti-Catholic “Christian” board I was in, the moderators read them all.

kepha1


#9

[quote=excatholic]I like it when the church says its followers are obligated to believe the latest dogma. This is apostasy friend, read God’s Word and see if you read any thing about the magesterium, or Mary being co redemptrist, or mediatrix. Sola scritura vs. the changing and growing traditions of the RCC. When will it end? Once a lie is told there are needed many to vainly justify it.
[/quote]

Your point is invalid, besides Sola scritura is refuted in scripture.


#10

I’m reminded of a quote from Blessed Teresa of Calcutta, “redemption was won thorough Jesus’ Body, and Mary gave Jesus His Body. No Mary No Jesus, Know Mary Know Jesus.


#11

There is a HUGE thread on this topic already.

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=15967&highlight=mary+redemptrix


#12

Many Protestants attack the Catholic Church’s veneration of Mary, saying she resembles the ‘Queen of Heaven’ worshipped by pagans. However, many non-Christians attack Jesus Christ in a similar manner, saying that that the Gospel accounts resemble pagan Gods who died and came back to life (like Adonis, Osiris, etc.). However, both criticisms can be disarmed by the same argument. G. K. Chesterton wrote:

Quote:
If the Christian God made the human race, would not the human race tend to rumors and perversions of the Christian God? If the center of our life is a certain fact, would not people far from the center have a muddled version of that fact? If we are so made that a Son of God must deliver us, is it odd that Patagonians should dream of the sudden God? When learned skeptics come to me and say ‘are you aware the Kaffirs have a sort of incarnation?’ Speaking as an unlearned person, I don’t know. But speaking as a Christian, I should be very much astonished if they hadn’t.

So, resemblances between Maryand the pagan ‘Queen of Heaven’ are no more troublesome to Catholics then resemblances of Christ to certain pagan myths. But why do we call her ‘Queen’? The reason is simple. In the Old Testament, the mother of the king held a position known as the ‘queen mother’ (this isn’t unique to Israel; look at the devotion the British people had to their ‘Queen Mum’). Jesus is not only heir to the throne of David but is the King of Kings; therefore we Catholics honor His Mother as the Ultimate Queen Mother.


#13

[quote=mtr01]Why don’t you tell us what you think the Catholic Church means by the title of Co-Redemptrix or Mediatrix. Do you even know what the prefix “co-” means? Tell us your views, please, so we can correct you. It wouldn’t be charitable of us to let you remain in error.
[/quote]

Remeber I was Catholic:Mary as Co-redeemer and Mediatria: Catholics speak of Mary as the co-redeemer of humanity. They offer a number of arguments in support of this idea. For example, Mary’s very agreement to bear in her womb the human-divine Messiah shows a cooperation on her part with (and a taking part in) the divine plan of humankind’s redemption.For this reason, the Second Vatican Council tells us, a number of the early church fathers asserted that “the knot of Eve’s disobedience was untied by Mary’s obedience: what the virgin Eve bound through her disbelief, Mary loosened by her faith.” Comparing Mary with Eve, they claim: “death through Eve, life through Mary”. Moreover, Mary is often portrayed as offering her son to the Father on Golgotha. Hence, it is argued. Mary played a pivotal role in the redemption of humankind. She is thus referred to as “co-redeniptor” Let me know if you want my input about scriptural.


#14

[quote=SaintJVMan]Your point is invalid, besides Sola scritura is refuted in scripture.
[/quote]

Pick one Mary or Sola scriptura.


#15

[quote=excatholic]I like it when the church says its followers are obligated to believe the latest dogma. This is apostasy friend, read God’s Word and see if you read any thing about the magesterium, or Mary being co redemptrist, or mediatrix. Sola scritura vs. the changing and growing traditions of the RCC. When will it end? Once a lie is told there are needed many to vainly justify it.
[/quote]

Why do you believe in Trinity if it’s not in the Bible?

Where in the Bible does it say one being, three persons?


#16

[quote=excatholic]Pick one Mary or Sola scriptura.
[/quote]

Sola Scriptura. Let’s go.

Prove me how do you know the table of content of the Bible.


#17

Mother’s Medicine: Mary as MediatrixThe writing of this essay constitutes a sort of personal victory for me. As a Protestant convert to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, there were many dogmas and teachings of the Church that I had to wrestle through in my mind. Many converts experience the same thing, and most will tell you that the last and greatest obstacle they had to overcome were the Marian doctrines

For me, personally, the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption were not terribly difficult to understand or accept. The really difficult teaching, although it has not yet attained dogmatic status, was the teaching regarding Mary as the Mediatrix of Grace.

After a great deal of study, however, I am now able to present this essay, in which I believe I can show that Scripture itself implicitly teaches that Mary is the channel through which Our Lord dispenses His graces. A tough challenge, some might say, but it really surprised me how easy it was to see this teaching in Sacred Scripture, once I had the right interpretive keys in hand.


#18

We begin with as early a witness as St. Irenaeus:

In accordance with this design, Mary the Virgin is found obedient… But Eve was disobedient; for she did not obey when as yet she was a virgin. And even as she… having become disobedient, was made the cause of death, both to herself and to the entire human race; so also did Mary, having a man betrothed [to her], and being nevertheless a virgin, by yielding obedience, become the cause of salvation, both to herself and the whole human race… And thus also it was that the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith (Against Heresies, 3:22:4)

St. Irenaeus here advocates a sort of “New Eve” typology in relation to Mary. He draws out certain parallels between the two women, and concludes that Mary constitutes a kind of “reversal” of Eve. What Eve bound up by her disobedience, Mary has loosed and set free by her obedience. St. Irenaeus puts it most strongly in this way: “Mary… [became] the cause of salvation, both to herself and the whole human race.”

Later in this same work, Against Heresies, St. Irenaeus returns to the Mary/Eve parallel:

For just as the former [Eve] was led astray by the word of an angel, so that she fled from God when she had transgressed His word; so did the latter [Mary], by an angelic communication, receive the glad tidings that she should sustain (portaret) God, being obedient to His word. And if the former did disobey God, yet the latter was persuaded to be obedient to God, in order that the Virgin Mary might become the patroness (advocata) of the virgin Eve. And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to death by means of a virgin, so is it rescued by a virgin; virginal disobedience having been balanced in the opposite scale by virginal obedience. (ibid., 5:19:1)

Once again the saint draws certain parallels between Eve and Mary, drawing the conclusion that Mary has become the “advocate” of Eve, and that Mary’s obedience - in some mystical way - balances the scales that were tipped by Eve’s disobedience. The words are strikingly clear: “the human race… is rescued by a virgin.”


#19

The Wedding at Cana

I have already written at some length about this first of Jesus’ public miracles, and unfortunately, I cannot avoid some measure of repetition. Therefore I would ask your patience as we move through some data and details which are probably already familiar to you, because we will be applying what we find in John 2:1-11 in a way that highlights Mary’s role as the Mediatrix of Grace.

We begin with the text of John 2:1-11:

On the third day there was a marriage at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there; Jesus also was invited to the marriage, with his disciples.

When the wine failed, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”

And Jesus said to her, “O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come.”

His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

Now six stone jars were standing there, for the Jewish rites of purification, each holding twenty or thirty gallons.

Jesus said to them, “Fill the jars with water.” And they filled them up to the brim.

He said to them, “Now draw some out, and take it to the steward of the feast.” So they took it.

When the steward of the feast tasted the water now become wine, and did not know where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), the steward of the feast called the bridegroom and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first; and when men have drunk freely, then the poor wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.”

This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee, and manifested his glory; and his disciples believed in him.We see in verse 3 that Mary requests a miracle from her Son, when she says “they have no wine.” True, she does not come right out and ask for anything specific, nor does she frame her request as a question, but nonetheless, this is a request for miraculous actionLikewise with the Blessed Mother. She conveys the facts to Our Lord - “they have no wine” - but she does so because she wishes Him to remedy the situation in some miraculous way. I was say “miraculous” because it would be silly to think that Mary here intended for Our Lord to procure more wine using natural means, such as running off to the market to buy more.

So our first point is established then, and it is simply this: the miracle which follows is the direct result of a specific intercession on the part of Our Lady.:blessyou:


#20

[quote=beng]Sola Scriptura. Let’s go.

Prove me how do you know the table of content of the Bible.
[/quote]

Would you believe the Jewish canon and Flavius Josephus, or would anything change your mind?


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