Cohabitation is fornication


#1

This is a split from another thread

This is a quote from poster TrueLove88

The definition of co-habitation is two or more people of the opposite sex living together under one roof; who are unmarried, boyfriend-girlfriend, engaged couples, or just as roommates,
even if they are not romantically involved it would still be co-habitation.

It is still co-habitation even when it involves friends and siblings, it would be very immodest and inappropriate to live with an unmarried sibling of the opposite sex, people will assume there is more going on than simply trying to save on rent and more often than not they do not know that the other person is a sibling.

Co-habitation is fornication, it goes against God’s laws and commandments and therefore it is a mortal sin, we cannot separate co-habitation and fornication they go hand in hand, they are both mortally sinful and displeasing to God.

so in answer to your question, yes living with someone of the opposite sex, family, friend or not it is still co-habitation and therefore is fornication.

So, is cohabitation even with siblings or friends fornication? Is cohabitation without sexual relations fornication? Is it sinful and scandalous for a brother and sister to live together?


#2

Fornication requires actual sexual conduct, so if there is no sex, there is no sin.

The sin of scandal can occur if the perception is that the roomates are fornicating. Given this, I can’t see siblings co-habiting as giving scandal. Almost no one would assume they are engaged in sexual relations. If you are going to stretch that far, you’d have to say that having a roomate at all (even of the same sex) is scandalous, b/c people could assume they are homosexuals.

Cohabiting with friends could be scandalous depending on the context. If it is a larger group, 3+, and the people are young, college or shortly after, most people would not assume a sexual relationship. If it is just two people, and they appear to be very close, it probably would give scandal.

God Bless


#3

From the other thread:

True Love,

I think that a lot of us are saying to you is that to equate fornicaton with co habitation is not correct. While, I believe, you will find that most of those on this forum will agree that we are not to co-habitate before marriage, there are circumstances that the Church says it is okay and these are on a case by case basis. But you must bear in mind that they must live as brother and sister.

If you say that a brother and sister are not to share an apartment together then you need to provide some Church teaching that supports this statement. Simply hearing it from one priest will not justify this. I have read a lot on the Church’s teachings on moral theology and have yet to see that a brother and sister cannot live together.

Again, to live with a member of the opposite sex, say a fiance to save up money for a house, for financial reasons is not a valid reason and the Church does not agree that this is acceptable. If it is a case where it cannot be avoided, they are to live as brother and sister. Brothers and sisters do not have sex. They are living a in a morally acceptable way.

Please realize that you cannot make a bold statement that “no one of the opposite sex can live together or they will be in a state of mortal sin” and not have some documented proof for it.

That would be like me saying that a priest told me that “Ah use artificial birth control since you cannot afford another baby right now.” Would that make it right? ABC is against what the Church teaches, but a priest says that it is ok? What if a priest says that you cannot drink alcohol? Should you not have a glass of wine? Does that put you in a state of mortal sin because a priests says so? The Catholic Church does not teach that.

That paragraph was used to make a point here. You cannot say that this is a mortal sin without support (other than a priest told you).


#4

mirror mirror I agree with you. Can you imagine a situation where the parents died and the oldest child takes care of the rest - that is fornication. What ? That’s a grave sin. It makes no sense.


#5

What??? We can’t live with a sibling if necessary without having it called fornication? This gets into judgement far beyond what is necessary. Friends is one thing but there are various factors which might necessitate one living with a sibling of the opposite sex. People’s minds are in the gutter if they think there is always sex going on.


#6

It is still co-habitation even when it involves friends and siblings, it would be very immodest and inappropriate to live with an unmarried sibling of the opposite sex, people will assume there is more going on than simply trying to save on rent and more often than not they do not know that the other person is a sibling.

Co-habitation is fornication, it goes against God’s laws and commandments and therefore it is a mortal sin, we cannot separate co-habitation and fornication they go hand in hand, they are both mortally sinful and displeasing to God.

so in answer to your question, yes living with someone of the opposite sex, family, friend or not it is still co-habitation and therefore is fornication.

Either the original poster (1) had a strange sense of humor, (2) is terribly misinformed, or (3) is deliberately trying to deceive others. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, so I’m going with explanation #2. There is a suggestion in Sacred Scripture that St. John took the Blessed Virgin Mary into his household after Jesus’ crucifixion (i.e., Our Lord’s words from the cross: “son, behold your mother”) To say that such a living arrangement is equivalent to immoral sex is absurd.


#7

I share expenses with a person of the same gender. This is the only way to afford an apartment these days, unless you are fabulously wealthy. I don’t give a darn whether anyone thinks I am homosexual. It doesn’t bother me. I wouldn’t care if my roommate actually was homosexual.


#8

FYI…

the previous thread that this came from is at
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=170069. Start at post #18.

If anyone wants to read up on what already has been said/discussed.


#9

co·hab·it http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngcache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif /koʊˈhæbhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciationkoh-hab-it] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation *–verb (used without object) *1.to live together as husband and wife, usually without legal or religious sanction. 2.to live together in an intimate relationship. 3.to dwell with another or share the same place, as different species of animals.
[Origin: 1520–30; < LL *cohabitāre, equiv. to co- co- + habitāre to have possession, abide (freq. of habére to have, own)http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

—Related forms **co·hab·it·ant, co·hab·it·er, ***noun *
**co·hab·i·ta·tion, ***noun *

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source co·hab·it http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (kō-hāb’ĭt) Pronunciation Key
intr.v. co·hab·it·ed, co·hab·it·ing, co·hab·its
[LIST=1]
*]To live together in a sexual relationship, especially when not legally married.
*]To coexist, as animals of different species.[/LIST]

[Late Latin cohabitāre : Latin co-, *co- + Latin habitāre, to dwell; see inhabit.]

co·hab’i·tant, co·hab’it·er* n., co·hab’i·ta’tion n., co·hab’i·ta’tion·al adj.*
(Download Now* or Buy the Book)* The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.WordNet - Cite This Source cohabitation
nounthe act of living together and having a sexual relationship (especially without being married)
WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.


#10

Let’s not get sidetracked…I believe this line of thought originated when the subject of Holy Matrimony was brought up…cohabitation being an impediment to the sacrament…
See below…

co·hab·it http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngcache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif /koʊˈhæbhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciationkoh-hab-it] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation *–verb (used without object) *1.to live together as husband and wife, usually without legal or religious sanction. 2.to live together in an intimate relationship. 3.to dwell with another or share the same place, as different species of animals.
[Origin: 1520–30; < LL *cohabitāre, equiv. to co- co- + habitāre to have possession, abide (freq. of habére to have, own)http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

—Related forms **co·hab·it·ant, co·hab·it·er, ***noun *
**co·hab·i·ta·tion, ***noun *

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source co·hab·it http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (kō-hāb’ĭt) Pronunciation Key
intr.v. co·hab·it·ed, co·hab·it·ing, co·hab·its
[LIST=1]
*]To live together in a sexual relationship, especially when not legally married.
*]To coexist, as animals of different species.[/LIST]

[Late Latin cohabitāre : Latin co-, *co- + Latin habitāre, to dwell; see inhabit.]

co·hab’i·tant, co·hab’it·er* n., co·hab’i·ta’tion n., co·hab’i·ta’tion·al adj.*
(Download Now* or Buy the Book)* The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.WordNet - Cite This Source cohabitation
nounthe act of living together and having a sexual relationship (especially without being married)
WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.


#11

sorry :blush: I picked up the previous paste…
Cohabitation of a man and a woman without the full sanctions of legal marriage.
In the Judeo-Christian tradition, the term concubine has been generally applied exclusively to women; Western studies of non-Western societies use it to refer to partners who are sanctioned by law but lack the status of full wives. See also common-law marriage; harem; polygamy.

Canon 1093 The impediment of public propriety arises when a couple live together after an invalid marriage, or from a notorious or public concubinage. It invalidates marriage in the first degree of the direct line between the man and those related by consanguinity to the woman, and vice versa.

What are the diriment impediments of Matrimony?
The following, and they are such as are to be found in the new Code of Canon Law: (1) Immature age, that is before sixteen complete years for the man, and before fourteen complete years for the woman; (2) impotency anterior to marriage and perpetual, whether on the part of the man or on the part of the woman, whether known or not known, whether absolute or relative; (3) the fact of being already married even though the marriage has not been consummated; (4) disparity of religion when one of the parties is not baptized, and the other has been baptized in the Catholic Church, or has returned to the Church by being converted from schism or heresy; (5) the fact of being in Holy Orders; (6) the fact of having taken solemn vows in religion, or also simple vows provided the Holy See has determined that these simple vows render marriage null and void; (7) rape or detention by force with a view to marriage, until the person so detained have the full use of liberty; (8) adultery with the promise, or the civil attempt, of marriage, or adultery followed by murder of the married partner committed by one of the two delinquents – or the co-operation, without adultery, whether physical or moral, in the murder of the married partner; (9) consanguinity in direct line of descent always, and collaterally to the third degree inclusively, and this impediment is multiplied according as the root or stock common to the two parties is multiplied; (10) affinity in the direct line always, and collaterally to the second degree inclusively, and this impediment is multiplied according as the impediment of consanguinity which is the cause is multiplied, or by a subsequent marriage with a blood relation of the dead partner; (11) public honesty arising from an invalid marriage whether consummated or not, ***and from public concubinage ***-- this makes marriage null and void in the first and second degree in the direct line between a man and the blood relations of the woman, and vice versa; (12) spiritual parentage contracted between a person baptized and the one who baptizes and the godfather or the godmother; (13) legal parentage by adoption – if the civil law holds this as an obstacle to the validity of marriage it becomes by the virtue of Canon Law a diriment impediment (Code, Canons 1067-1080; L.-LXII.).
(E)
public concubinage is cohabitation.


#12

focus please…
Cohabitation…not other living arrangements.
This is almost like playing telephone…


#13

From the original post…“I’m Pregnant” we can understand the pure logic of Holy Mother Church…cohabitation causes more hurt than help.
Holy Mother Church offers us side rails, if you will, it is up to us to obey. It is for our own best interest. It protects us from going over the edge to our own eternal destruction.


#14

Just a thought here…folks from my generation commonly understood what the word cohabitate meant…it appears to have warped into a totally false meaning…a total desensitization.
The modern man has lost a sense of modesty and propriety.

*noun, plural ***-ties. **1.the quality of being modest; freedom from vanity, boastfulness, etc. 2.regard for decency of behavior, speech, dress, etc. 3.simplicity; moderation.
[Origin: 1525–35; < L *modestia. See modest, -y3http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source mod·es·ty http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (mŏd’ĭ-stē) Pronunciation Key
n.

[LIST=1]
*]The state or quality of being modest.
*]Reserve or propriety in speech, dress, or behavior.
*]Lack of pretentiousness; simplicity.[/LIST]
*–noun, plural ***-ties. **1.conformity to established standards of good or proper behavior or manners. 2.appropriateness to the purpose or circumstances; suitability. 3.rightness or justness. 4.**the proprieties, **the conventional standards of proper behavior; manners: *to observe the proprieties. *5.Obsolete. a property. 6.Obsolete. a peculiarity or characteristic of something.
[Origin: 1425–75; late ME *propriete ownership, something owned, one’s own nature (cf. var. proprete property) < MF propriété < L proprietās peculiarity, ownership, equiv. to propri(us) proper + -etās, var., after vowels, of -itās -ityhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

Please God that this site will help to renew the Christian morals and sensus fidei of the faithful viewing these posts.
Please God that we all have the same goals…the greater honor and glory of His Majesty.


#15

Based on the definitions posted by MaryHenley this is about semantics.

Two people sharing living quarters and participating in sexual relations are cohabitating. This is fornication and a grave matter.

Two people sharing living quarters and NOT participating in sexual relations are “sharing living quarters.” This is not fornication and not a grave matter.

With regards to two siblings living together (same or opposite sex), without evidence of something inappropriate, to assert it is scandalous requires one to make a rash judgment which is a grave matter. See below from the catechism.

While in college, two of my female cousins (cousins themselves) shared a efficiency apartment their first year of graduate school and shared a bed. I’m wholly confident that nothing inappropriate ever occurred there. As a family, we enjoyed the stories of their “battles” as we think they were less tolerant of individual foibles and habits they might have been if they hadn’t been related.:smiley:

Furthermore, my son, another female cousin (I have 21 cousins), and two of her friends shared an apartment for a summer while in college. Again, I’m wholly confident that nothing occurred inappropriately between the roommates. In fact, I liked the idea that my cousin was w/ my son as it discouraged any inappropriate behaviour on his part (at least in that apartment).

Finally, I was once stationed in another town for work (I was married w/ children and about 35) and living in a motel for three months. While there, another female cousin (yes I have alot), had the opportunity to have a one month internship in the same town. For that month, she (about 21 years old) and I shared a single motel room w/ two double beds. We knew it didn’t look good so we tried to be discrete (never going in the room together). At the same time, if she hadn’t gotten a free room, she could never have taken the unpaid internship which she desperately wanted to do. As a side benefit, it allowed me to really get to know a cousin who by age and distance I never really knew that well. I now literally consider her a sister. The only time when things were stressful was in the morning during the battle for the bathroom. Many evenings we both got back around 8 p.m. as we worked late and ate pizza in the room. And frankly, I look back on it as a lot of fun living like a college student!

IMO, there is way too much energy wasted on what appears to be scandal without facts and too little on actual known bad behaviour. If parents and friends would be vocal about that which they know is wrong and not being critical for “appearance”, I think there would be more accountability and better behaviour.

From the Catechism:

2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:

[LIST]
*]of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;

*]of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;

*]of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.
[/LIST]

2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:


#16

I agree fully.

I have some issues with what you said because how does anyone get this perception? There are people that absolutely hate public displays of affection, but are we to assume the worst if two people share an apartment with two separate bedrooms in order to save money on rent?

“Giving scandal” is a sin that is confusing to me. What exactly is the sin of “scandal” and who actually “gives scandal”. Sometimes I think that gossipers and people who start rumors give scandal more than people who are involved in the “scandal.” Granted, I think that it is wise to be prudent and avoid gossip in order to protect an image - especially if you represent the Church. But sometimes I think that we stretch the definiton of what “giving scandal” really means.

Yep…Amen to that!

I am kind of confused as to definition one and definition two. Aren’t they essentially the same thing, at least from a Catholic view point? Granted, the dictionary said “intimate relationship” but isn’t that the nice way of saying “sexual relationship”? If so, isn’t living together as husband and wife mean living together and sharing the benefit of marriage, i.e. the sexual relationship?

I think that if two people are not romantically involved, it would be permissible for them to live together depending on the situation. It wouldn’t be wise, especially if there is *some *attraction, but I don’t think it should be considered automatically sinful. It really depends on the person and the situation. What if one roomate was a heterosexual female and the other a homosexual male who is trying to live a chaste life?


#17

First off, to co-habitat means that there is a sexual relationship going on, so co-habitation in and of itself is sinful. I am simply stating that to co-habitat is gravely sinful and should be avoided at all costs.
I will say, however, I was a little too over zealous about the siblings situation so let me clarify. Living together just to make ends meet, or to help with rent, or because you need a roommate, that is really not a necessity for a brother and sister to live together outside of the family life, it would be improper and and could potentially lead to immodesty, temptation and sin. It could be very easily mistaken for something it is not, such as co-habitation because people do not know thats your sibling.

I seem to confuse people very easily, so let me correct myself about my earlier posts. These particular situations deal with a case by case basis,
i.e for the previous OP’s particular situation, where to live with a sibling would be completely fine and the best option, since out of necessity it is the safest thing for that person right now, they are also in a society where the cultural norms are very different. i.e woman hold hands while shopping completely normal, people don’t assume they’re homosexual.
I live in the US and I know that living with a sibling of the opposite sex here has the potential to lead to scandal. So I will state again that it is a case by case basis, and in no way am telling the OP to not live with her siblings. Just don’t co-habitat with the siblings, which is a completely different thing.
God Bless
finis


#18

To co-habitat is always sinful, the correct use of the term co-habitat is as listed:

co·hab·it /koʊˈhæbɪt/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[koh-hab-it]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation–verb (used without object) 1.to live together as husband and wife, usually without legal or religious sanction. 2.to live together in an intimate relationship. 3.to dwell with another or share the same place, as different species of animals.
[Origin: 1520–30; < LL cohabitāre, equiv. to co- co- + habitāre to have possession, abide (freq. of habére to have, own)]

—Related forms co·hab·it·ant, co·hab·it·er, noun
co·hab·i·ta·tion, noun

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source co·hab·it (kō-hāb’ĭt) Pronunciation Key
intr.v. co·hab·it·ed, co·hab·it·ing, co·hab·its

  1. To live together in a sexual relationship, especially when not legally married.
  2. To coexist, as animals of different species.

[Late Latin cohabitāre : Latin co-, co- + Latin habitāre, to dwell; see inhabit.]

co·hab’i·tant, co·hab’it·er n., co·hab’i·ta’tion n., co·hab’i·ta’tion·al adj.
(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.WordNet - Cite This Source cohabitation
nounthe act of living together and having a sexual relationship (especially without being married)
WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.

The apple we are talking about is co-habitation
i.e fornication
The oranges of which you speak are of living arrangements they are not the same. This is not word semantics this is a correct understanding of the English language.


#19

This is an assumption and you know what assuming does.

How can you say that if someone is co-habitating there is a sexual relationship going on? How can you make that blanket statement. That is very judgemental and very wrong!


#20

To co-habitat is always sinful, the correct use of the term co-habitat is as listed:

co·hab·it /koʊˈhæbɪt/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[koh-hab-it]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation–verb (used without object) 1.to live together as husband and wife, usually without legal or religious sanction. 2.to live together in an intimate relationship. 3.to dwell with another or share the same place, as different species of animals.
[Origin: 1520–30; < LL cohabitāre, equiv. to co- co- + habitāre to have possession, abide (freq. of habére to have, own)]

—Related forms co·hab·it·ant, co·hab·it·er, noun
co·hab·i·ta·tion, noun

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source co·hab·it (kō-hāb’ĭt) Pronunciation Key
intr.v. co·hab·it·ed, co·hab·it·ing, co·hab·its

  1. To live together in a sexual relationship, especially when not legally married.
  2. To coexist, as animals of different species.

[Late Latin cohabitāre : Latin co-, co- + Latin habitāre, to dwell; see inhabit.]

co·hab’i·tant, co·hab’it·er n., co·hab’i·ta’tion n., co·hab’i·ta’tion·al adj.
(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.WordNet - Cite This Source cohabitation
nounthe act of living together and having a sexual relationship (especially without being married)

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.

The apple we are talking about is co-habitation
i.e fornication
The oranges of which you speak are of living arrangements they are not the same. This is not word semantics this is a correct understanding of the English language.


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