Coming in his kingdom


#1

According to St Matthew, Lord Jesus said to Apostles: “Truly I say to you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”(Matthew16:28)

But all of Apostles died and Son of man didn’t come in his kingdom yet.

Why?


#2

???


#3

I did a quick search and it doesn’t seem that there’s any official Church teaching on this particular verse. Two of the best explanations I’ve heard is that it either refers to the Transfiguration or the destruction of the Temple. I’m more inclined to think it’s the later. Another possible interpretation is that some of the people Jesus was speaking to never died. Curiously St. John mentions that there was such a rumor going around about him (John 21:23).


#4

Indeed, would that not be something awesome?

The real immortal would be an Apostle of Jesus! :eek:
He’s probably hidden in some convent somewhere :smiley:

I doubt I would see that as a blessing though :frowning:


#5

[quote="javid, post:1, topic:333155"]
According to St Matthew, Lord Jesus said to Apostles: "Truly I say to you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."(Matthew16:28)

But all of Apostles died and Son of man didn't come in his kingdom yet.

Why?

[/quote]

Does anyone have the Catena Aurea handy? My copy's packed away, but that would be a good place to check for commentaries on this verse. (not to mention I need to step away from the computer and get ready for work)


#6

When I reflect on the Transfiguration, I can actually feel what I believe the disciples felt at that time. They didn´t want to come down, until they realized the magnitude of what they were experiencing. Then there was fear. In my hour with Christ after Mass, I have a fear of leaving Him and going out into the world, and the prince of this world. Jesus talked about the coming of the Kingdom in a general manner. The Kingdom is at hand, He said. Can someone actually be inmortal? It´s within God´s power. Could John the Baptist or John the beloved, be given a glorious body before the resurrection? It´s within God´s power. I personally believe, that He´s talking about the Transfiguration. The Transfiguration story, and He coming in glory, follows the Coming of the Kingdom statement. Do we know? Absolutely not. Is it true? Absolutely. It´s like believing the logic of the Holy Trinity, as well as the Holy Eucarist. Just because we can´t fathom it, doesn´t make it false. God never lies. God bless:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


#7

Thanks for answer.

[quote="UntimelyBourn, post:3, topic:333155"]
I did a quick search and it doesn't seem that there's any official Church teaching on this particular verse. Two of the best explanations I've heard is that it either refers to the Transfiguration or the destruction of the Temple. I'm more inclined to think it's the later.

[/quote]

Why we must think that coming in his kingdom means the Transfiguration or the destruction of the Temple?

[quote="UntimelyBourn, post:3, topic:333155"]
Another possible interpretation is that some of the people Jesus was speaking to never died. Curiously St. John mentions that there was such a rumor going around about him (John 21:23).

[/quote]

Accordingt Matthew16:28 Lord Jesus To said "Truly I say to you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" He didn't say "If I will that he tarry till I come."

The Devine church teaches us that All Apostles died.

This is the question.


#8

[quote="JerryZ, post:4, topic:333155"]
Indeed, would that not be something awesome?

The real immortal would be an Apostle of Jesus! :eek:
He's probably hidden in some convent somewhere :D

I doubt I would see that as a blessing though :(

[/quote]

Take it easy man. I just looking for a reasonable faith.


#9

[quote="Ben_F, post:6, topic:333155"]
When I reflect on the Transfiguration, I can actually feel what I believe the disciples felt at that time. They didn´t want to come down, until they realized the magnitude of what they were experiencing. Then there was fear. In my hour with Christ after Mass, I have a fear of leaving Him and going out into the world, and the prince of this world. Jesus talked about the coming of the Kingdom in a general manner. The Kingdom is at hand, He said. Can someone actually be inmortal? It´s within God´s power. Could John the Baptist or John the beloved, be given a glorious body before the resurrection? It´s within God´s power. I personally believe, that He´s talking about the Transfiguration. The Transfiguration story, and He coming in glory, follows the Coming of the Kingdom statement. Do we know? Absolutely not. Is it true? Absolutely. It´s like believing the logic of the Holy Trinity, as well as the Holy Eucarist. Just because we can´t fathom it, doesn´t make it false. God never lies. God bless:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[/quote]

What did Lord Jesus before this:

Matthew 16:21

From that time forth began Jesus to show to his disciples, how that he must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

...

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus to his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whoever will save his life shall lose it: and whoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Matthew 16:26
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

And now he says:

Matthew 16:28
Truly I say to you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

He is talking about what happen after his death and his raise in third day(Matthew16:21) and His coming back is with his angels and then he shall reward every man according to his works.(Mathew16:27)

So this commentary is not true.


#10

[quote="javid, post:1, topic:333155"]
According to St Matthew, Lord Jesus said to Apostles: "Truly I say to you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."(Matthew16:28)

But all of Apostles died and Son of man didn't come in his kingdom yet.

Why?

[/quote]

When I thought about this for a long time, studying it over in my mind, I came up with this.
St. John wrote the Apocolypse which is a description of the end times. It is very graphic. It draws a detailed account. He "saw" the end times before he died and wrote it down. He saw the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. And as the Bible is the living word of God, inspired... doesn't it say somewhere that the world will not end until all is fulfilled??? So, we have a LOT to look forward to... Just a thought.


#11

Jesus’ “kingdom” is not limited to meaning only heaven. Kingdom also refers to His Church here on earth.
Catholics “see Him come” at every Mass when the priest pronounces the words of consecration over the bread and wine. Some of those in the crowd listening to Him would believe and become members of His Church where they would them be present at Mass to see and receive Him.

It’s interesting to note the differences in the 2 verses in Matthew – between the 2 comings.

  • Mt. 16:27 For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then **he will repay **every man for what he has done.

Mt. 16:28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." *Verse 27 can be considered to refer to Jesus coming at the end of the world. The bolded and underlined words are the clues. (“in glory” and a general judgement - a judgement of all who have ever lived).
See Mt. 25:31 - 46 for further detail about Our Lord’s final coming in glory.
(Mt. 25:31 "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. …)


#12

I think your confusion here comes with the interpretation of the word ‘death’. Death in the New Testament, when not obviously in a literal sense, typically means spiritual death. Since the Son of man (Jesus) didn’t come again, they never experienced spiritual death.


#13

I like this explanation. God bless:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


#14

[quote="bzkoss236, post:12, topic:333155"]
I think your confusion here comes with the interpretation of the word 'death'. Death in the New Testament, when not obviously in a literal sense, typically means spiritual death. Since the Son of man (Jesus) didn't come again, they never experienced spiritual death.

[/quote]

I don't think it means spiritual death in Mt. 16:28 since probably everyone in the crowd would have been spiritually dead -- the life of sanctifying grace not yet present in their souls. Everyone is born spiritually dead, that is, in the state of original sin. (Except Mary and possibly John the Baptist due to Divine intervention.) That is why we need to be born again/anew of water and the Spirit.

Romans 5:12-20
Eph 2:1-5


#15

I think we all can agree that at first it appears that Jesus is referring to His second coming. Then at the end we’re thrown for a loop when He says "there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” So we have a few options, either Christ is saying some of those He was speaking with wont die until after the second coming (spiritually or perhaps physically), or He wasn’t exclusively talking about the end times senario when He refers here to “coming in His kingdom”. I think this is the more likely interpretation. Just an opinion.

The reason I believe it refers to the destruction is because of what Jesus says immediately before this.

Matthew 16:24-28 (RSVCE) Then Jesus told his disciples, “If any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.** For those who want to save their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it. **For what will it profit them if they gain the whole world but forfeit their life? Or what will they give in return for their life?

For the Son of Man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay everyone for what has been done. Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

So here we have Jesus speaking of an event in the future which some of the apostles will witness. This event will involve Him “coming with His angels in the glory of His Father.” Then there will be a period of judgement in which He will repay everyone for what has been done. The destruction of the Temple fits the description. We know that some of the apostles lived to see it. We know that Christ prophesied concerning it and it seems clear that this was the result of God’s judgement on the nation of Israel for not accepting His Son. Considering that it occurred after Christ ascended into Heaven, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that He may have chosen to “come with His angels in the glory of His Father” in the form of a Roman army. Still this is all just speculation.

I don’t know of any Church teaching that specifically states that all the apostles died. Some apocryphal texts and Eastern tradition speak of St. John being assumed into Heaven (albeit after death). We know he wasn’t martyred. I’m open to being wrong on this one though.


#16

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