Common Figure of Speech/Colloquialism?


#1

The Messiah said that 3 night times would be involved with His time in the “heart of the earth”. There are those who believe that the Messiah died on the 6th day of the week and who think that the “heart of the earth” is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the time between the leaving of His spirit from His body and His resurrection on the 1st day of the week. However, this belief allows for only 2 night times to be involved. To reconcile this discrepancy some say that the Messiah was using common Jewish figure of speech/colloquial language of the time. I wonder if anyone knows of examples to support that assertion of commonality; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred.


#2

Hi, R!

Yeah… that one puzzles me too:

Friday - Sat
Sat - Sun

Even if we consider death on the Cross as being in the heart of the earth it still leaves:

Friday - day 1
Saturday - day 2
Sunday - day 3
Friday night - 1
Saturday night - 2

Unless we take into consideration what had transpired:

15:33 When the sixth hour came there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’ which means, ‘My God, my God, why have you deserted me?’ 15:35 When some of those who stood by heard this, they said, ‘Listen, he is calling on Elijah’. 15:36 Someone ran and soaked a sponge in vinegar and, putting it on a reed, gave it him to drink saying; ‘Wait and see if Elijah will come to take him down’. 15:37 But Jesus gave a loud cry and breathed his last. 15:38 And the veil of the Temple was torn in two from top to bottom. 15:39 The centurion, who was standing in front of him, had seen how he had died, and he said, ‘In truth this man was a son of God’. (St. Mark)

Jesus dying within the dark period could very well be the sign of the first day and night, making the succession:

Friday: day/night 1
Frida - Saturday - day/night 2
Saturday - Sunday: day/night 3

Maran atha!

Angel


#3

But this particular topic is only concerned with the belief that the “heart of the earth” is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the time between the leaving of His spirit from His body and His resurrection on the 1st day of the week.


#4

Here is one example:

Esther 4: 15 Then Esther told them to reply to Mor′decai, 16 “Go, gather all the Jews to be found in Susa, and hold a fast on my behalf, and neither eat nor drink for three days, night or day. I and my maids will also fast as you do. Then I will go to the king, though it is against the law; and if I perish, I perish.” 17 Mor′decai then went away and did everything as Esther had ordered him.

Esther 5: 1 On the third day Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the king’s palace, opposite the king’s hall. The king was sitting on his royal throne inside the palace opposite the entrance to the palace; 2 and when the king saw Queen Esther standing in the court, she found favor in his sight and he held out to Esther the golden scepter that was in his hand. Then Esther approached and touched the top of the scepter.

And from Deuterocanonical segments:

Esther 15:1 On the third day, when she ended her prayer, she took off the garments in which she had worshiped, and arrayed herself in splendid attire. 2 Then, majestically adorned, after invoking the aid of the all-seeing God and Savior, she took her two maids with her, 3 leaning daintily on one, 4 while the other followed carrying her train. 5 She was radiant with perfect beauty, and she looked happy, as if beloved, but her heart was frozen with fear. 6 When she had gone through all the doors, she stood before the king.


#5

Hi, R!

I actually saw two parts to this query: the time frame and the origin of the term “heart of the earth.”

I have not heard of this issue (Jewish understanding of the term) but you could check with Fr. Mitch Pacwa, EWTN, he is very knowledgeable on these matters.

Maran atha!

Angel


#6

Haydock Commentary,
Matthew 12 40 For as Jonas was in the whale’s belly three days and three nights: so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

Ver. 40. In the whale’s belly.[4] The word signifies a great fish, and was not perhaps that which we commonly call a whale. In the prophet Jonas, it is called, a great fish.

— Three days and three nights; not three whole days and three nights, but part of three natural days, from which, in common computation, the nights used not to be separated. We have an instance of this, Esther iv. 16, where the Jews were ordered to fast with her three days, and three nights: and yet (Chap. v, ver. 1) Esther, after part of three days, went to the king.

— In the heart of the earth: by which is signified, Christ’s descent into hell; as St. Paul says (Ephesians iv. 9.) that he descended into the inferior parts of the earth, and this cannot be understood of the grave only. (Witham)

— Jesus Christ expired on the cross about the ninth hour, or 3 p.m. when the general and supernatural darkness that covered the earth, may be counted for the first night, and the light which again appeared, for the term of the first day. (Bible de Vence)

— As Jonas was a sign to the Ninivites, so is Christ to the Jews; for as he by the prodigy of remaining so long in the fish’s belly, and afterwards coming forth alive, gave such authority to his preaching, that the Ninivites were converted; so Christ, by his death and resurrection on the third day, shall shew that he is the true Christ, and this generation shall acknowledge him for the Messias. (Menochius)


#7

Vico,
re: “Three days and three nights; not three whole days and three nights, but part of three natural days, from which, in common computation, the nights used not to be separated. We have an instance of this, Esther iv. 16, where the Jews were ordered to fast with her three days, and three nights: and yet (Chap. v, ver. 1) Esther, after part of three days, went to the king.”

I don’t see where the Esther account precludes at least a portion of each one of three daytimes and at least a portion of each one of three night times. Could you explain why you think that it does?


#8

Preclude means make impossible, so neither do I think that. Three can mean any portion of each of three night-day periods from sunset to sunset. So it can mean just before sunset on one day is the first day part, the next entire night and day, then any portion of the final day, for example: some time before sunset on Friday, Saturday entire, any time on Sunday beginning on Sunday sunset, that is, it could be a twenty-six hour time span.


#9

Vico,
re: “Preclude means make impossible, so neither do I think that.”

OK, maybe someone new looking in knows of instances, as requested in the OP, where a daytime or a night time was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred .


#10

Hi, Vico!

…so you’re saying that it does not mean 3 consecutive 12-hours day periods and 12-hours night periods; rather three periods of day and night that follow in a chronology: day-night–1; day-night–2; day-night–3; hence, it would be the collective span of time measured in day-night events where a day-night could be accounted for any portion of that period (Friday–Saturday–Sunday)?

Maran atha!

Angel


#11

Close, the Jewish time period is sunset to sunset for night is first. night-day–1; night-day–2; night-day-3. But day and night are not necessarily 12 hours each but sunset to sunrise, then sunrise to sunset. Yes, any portion of each.


#12

Got it!

Thanks!

Angel Valentine


#13

Jesus will be in the heart of the earth and will no longer be on the 3rd day. Each day is 1000 years. That is the heart of Church on earth. The Cathecism refers to the heart of the Church actually. Yes theres a head, but also a heart. And Jesus is there in a special way.

1st day - year 33-1033 AD
2nd day - year 1033-2033
3rd day - beings at 2033 (or 2034).

End of world will be at 2033 or anytime after that.

Days are joined with nights. Its SaturDAY today. This day includes the night also along with it. All days do. Nights dont dissapear from the day. Regardless, nights arent special anymore because Christians are of the day. We use hourglasses/clocks (time). Paul spoke until midnight. He was now being regulated by an hourglass. The Moon was no longer regulating him or defining his conduct as per all the other religions until this day actually.


#14

Jonah 2:4 = “in the heart of the sea”.

The traditional site of Calvary, or at least of Jerusalem, is the same place Eden was, and the same place Abraham went to sacrifice Isaac. The whole Bible is set up identifying Israel as the Garden of Eden, which is why Joshua in the Book of Joshua met up with an angel with a flaming sword. Going toward the Promised Land is going back to Eden, and being exiled from it is being exiled from Eden.

So being dead in the Jerusalem area is being dead “in the heart of the earth,” because that’s the most important place on Earth. And it’s the heart of the land, the eretz, too.


#15

Hi!

…you are aware that from Apostolic times man has been predicting this very same thing, right?

Maran atha!

Angel


#16

Hi, Mintaka!

Could you expand on this exhortation?

How do you come to that conclusion?

Maran atha!

Angel


#17

Three in the tomb.

Note in the Haydock Commentary for Jonas 2:1:

Ver. 1. Fish. Hebrew dag: afterwards daga occurs, ver. 2; (Haydock) on which Leusden observes, the Jews infer that Jonas was first swallowed up by male and then by a female fish, which being full of young he was much straitened, and prayed from the belly of that (hadaga) female fish! He alludes to Rabbi Jarchi. (Haydock)

— Thus nar, puer, is put for a girl, to imply that Rebecca was prudent and Dina rambling. (Buxt. Tib. 13.) See Kennicott, Dis. 2., p. 417 and 552.

— Noble discoveries! Many suppose (Haydock) that this fish was a whale, as it does not live on flesh; (Calmet) but its throat being so narrow, as hardly to suffer a man’s arm to pass, it is more probable that it was the sea-dog, lamia or canis chariarias, (Bartolin 14.) which may easily contain a man. (Aldrovandus iii. 32.) (Menochius)

— This sea-dog, or shark, has five rows of teeth in each jaw. Human bodies have been found entire in the stomach. (Button.)

— Our Saviour calls the fish a whale, Matthew xii. 40. (Worthington)

— But that term is given to any great sea monster. Yet it is not of much importance what species of fish be meant, provided the miracle be admitted. (Calmet)

— The pagans ridiculed it. (St. Augustine, ep. 102. q. 6. 30.)

— Yet they believed many of a similar nature, alleging the omnipotence of God. (St… Jerome)

— This reason accounts for all the miracles recorded in Scripture. But might not God have chosen some easier expedient? We must not dive into his reasons. The impression which such a fact would make on the Ninivites, and the prefiguring of Christ’s burial, might suffice. Jonas was not a type of his death, as some have imagined, Q. ad Orthodox. (Calmet)

— Nights, or as long as our Saviour was in the monument, (Menochius) which was about thirty-four hours. (Calmet, Dis.)


#18

Maybe someone new looking in may know of examples.


#19

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