Communion being restricted

I’m currently talking to some protestant friends about communion, specifically about who should take it, and I have tried, as winsomely as possible to put forward the Catholic view (without actually saying ‘this is the Catholic view’) . I’ve been confounded by a really individualistic approach to 1 Corinthians 11:27-30 and the zinger that Jesus gave communion to Judas so the church has no business refusing anyone. Any help?

Who says Jesus gave Judas the Eucharist?

You will not find anywhere in Sacred Scripture that says he did.

Rather one finds that Judas left…the supper…

Yes Paul (and of course the Holy Spirit) - very serious about examining oneself …etc in terms of the Eucharist.

Catholics are yes to examine their conscience - so as not to receive unworthily (in mortal sin).

John 13:26 says…

Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.

Interesting zinger.

But in accordance with the scripture you quoted, you bring judgement on yourself by taking it unworthily. And Jesus, being God, knew the guy was already a goner.

So that’s that.

The truth is pretty simple. We get the teaching from directly from St. Paul.

There were always people (gnostics, etc) who were outside communion with the Church. From the very beginning, the Church did not share communion with people who didn’t share our common beliefs. So it’s natural that the Church would continue this.

Also, from our point of view, we consider it a favor we are doing for them… preventing them from committing sacrilege, even though they don’t believe they are sinning. Afterall, it’s better to be safe than sorry

Unless of course we are talking Jesus’ parable of the talents in which case playing it safe is condemned harshly.

I was referring to playing it safe to avoid hell. Not playing it safe and not using your talents to their full potential.

They likely don’t believe it’s the body of Christ, so it’s just symbolic bread.

Or, they don’t believe in consecration by an ordained priest. Any lay person will do.

I believe you are mistaken if you believe that was the Eucharist. That was something they were eating that was dipped in the dish.

It was when Jesus “took bread…” that He gave them Himself. Judas had already left.

Sorry I did not look up exact quotes, as I do not have the time at this moment.

St.Mark 14; 12-16 states Judas left
St Matthew 27 ;20-25 does not state if Judas left but does have the event in question before the institution of the Eucharist.
St.Luke 22: 14-20 institution of Eucharist 21-23 revelation of the betrayer.

Thank you!

I do not see Matthew 27: 20-25 being about the Last Supper, or about anything before the institution of the Eucharist.

I do not see Mark 14: 12-16 stating that Judas left. Mark 14:17,18 mentions the betrayer.

I believe you are mistaken if you believe that was the Eucharist. That was something they were eating that was dipped in the dish.

It was when Jesus “took bread…” that He gave them Himself. Judas had already left.

Sorry I did not look up exact quotes, as I do not have the time at this moment.
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Fr. Vincent Serpa answered a question on this topic implying AFAICT that Judas did receive the (Last Supper) Eucharist from Jesus and that the act was in some way connected with the
over-all betrayal of Jesus.

Link
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=1471&highlight=judas+eucharist

The Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
This is a fundamental, basic tenet of the Catholic faith.
Protestants do not share this belief.
Besides the Eucharist being the Body of Christ, accepting communion signifies unity with the Catholic faith----- why would a Protestant even want to take “our” communion?

Some use crackers and juice as “just a symbol” in memory of what Jesus did for us.

Others came up with other theories for the real presence and apostolic succession.

Lion IRC,

Thank you. I still have a lot to learn about Sacred Scripture, in spite of all the bible studies!

Peace,

Dorothy

i must have missed it. where did you get your information that Jesus gave communion to judas?

"Judas was not converted while partaking of the sacred mysteries. Hence on both sides his crime becomes the more heinous, both because imbued with such a purpose he approached the mysteries, and because he became none the better for approaching, neither from fear, nor from the benefit received, nor from the honor conferred on him.”

– Saint John Chrysostom, Homily 82 on Matthew

Saint Dionysius* says (Eccl. Hier. iii) and Saint Augustine (Tract. lxii in Joan.) also confirm that Judas received the Holy Eucharist.

What is the theological significance? Saint Thomas Aquinas explains:

“And this would have been quite proper [to refuse Judas the Eucharist], if the malice of Judas be considered. But since Christ was to serve us as a pattern of justice, it was not in keeping with His teaching authority to sever Judas, a hidden sinner, from Communion with the others without an accuser and evident proof. lest the Church’s prelates might have an example for doing the like, and lest Judas himself being exasperated might take occasion of sinning."

For these ancient commentators, Judas’ betrayal is a cautionary tale against ‘unworthily’ eating and drinking of the Eucharist, against which St. Paul warned in 1 Corinthians 11:

“Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. …For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying.”

In the Gospel of John, Jesus opens the Last Supper with a startling announcement: He would be betrayed and, what’s more, the perpetrator was in their midst. When pressed by some of the disciples, Jesus says the traitor is the person to whom he would hand a morsel of bread, after dipping it in wine. Judas—more often the would-be deceiver in the gospel accounts—here seems oblivious to his impending fate, and readily consumes the Eucharistic bread when Christ offers it to him.

What happens next is quite telling. The gospel writer reports that, “After he took the morsel, Satan entered him.”

The sinful inclination of his heart prior to the meal, coupled with his Satanic possession afterwards, led Church Fathers to infer a warning from Judas’ participation in the Eucharistic feast.

“But some will say, was his being given up to the devil the effect of his receiving the sop [the bread] from Christ?” St. Augustine wrote. “To whom we answer, that they may learn here the danger of receiving amiss what is in itself good. If he is reproved who does not discern, i.e. who does not distinguish, the Lord’s body from other food, how is he condemned who, feigning himself a friend, comes an enemy to the Lord’s table?”

Elsewhere, in his tracts on John, Augustine is more to the point: “Peter and Judas received of the same bread, but Peter to life, Judas to death.”

Thank you, a quote from the fathers is exactly the kind of thing I am looking for!

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