[quote=LatinCat]Catholics often refer to the Eucharist as bread, not because it is literally bread but because it looks like bread and becasue is truely “the bread of life”. But we must not forget, Christ said, “This, (the loaf in his hands) is my body”. not “My body is in this”. Furthermore, the fathers of the Church call the Eucharist Christ’s body. They never mention any idea of Consubstantiation.
Although it is very tempting to call the Lutheran belief consubstantiation, I’ve found that they tend to rather dislike the term. They tend to be opposed to any type of terminology being applied to it, which is frustrating because it makes discussion harder. Of course, it doesn’t make much sense for the Lutherans to want to adopt that type of philosophy about accidents and substances, because the philosophy simply doesn’t permit two substances to coexist at once, together.
Lutheran’s do NOT consider any part of the Eucharist symbolic.
Which is certainly a good thing.
This also is not correct. Bread and wine are kept to administer to those who cannot attend due to illness, etc; and they are also disposed of in a reverent manner, because we can’t know definitely when Our Lord ceases to be present in them.
Yes, I found this idea fascinating. That is, that it must be received and that if it isn’t that Christ eventually disappears from the consecrated elements. The idea cropped up here. I find it peculiar, but I would imagine you’d say that about some Catholic beliefs.
As to the validity of the Eucharistic meal in the Lutheran Church, I beg to differ, but have no intention of trying to defend this. As we are both strong in our respective faiths, we could argue this until the cows come home, but I doubt it would change either of our minds.
I see, yes. I won’t drag you into an apostolic succession debate. I’ll just say that, in lieu of apostolic succession, I’ve never seen a compelling reason to find proper authority to fulfill the function, i.e., I don’t find the particular Lutheran flavor of the priesthood of all believers to be convincing. I have a feeling that you’re right, we won’t change each other’s minds, but you could always do a search under my name for ‘priesthood,’ if you’re interested in seeing what I’ve had to say before.
But, she went to a Lutheran service today, and saw all the similarities between Catholics and Lutherans which is okay in it’s own right… but she doesn’t understand the difference between the two types of communion, and I’m having a horrible time getting all the facts straightened out in a way I can explain it to her.
What you always need to ask is this… by what authority? As a human being, the authority to call down the Holy Spirit to sanctify the gifts simply isn’t innate. It’s not just something that we’re born with. If we don’t have the authority to do it, where do we get it? Catholics and Lutherans have two *very *divergent views on this. Catholics see the authority coming from apostolic succession and the transferral of Holy Orders. Lutherans reject Holy Orders and instead believe that everyone is granted the authority of what the Catholics call the ministerial priesthood by virtue of their baptism. In other words, every Lutheran pretty much has the authority to fulfill the functions of a priest. The difference is that not ever Lutheran is called to function as a priest. Contrast this with the Catholic Church where only those who are ordained have the authority and can function as a priest.
Ask your friend. If at the Catholic Mass the priest hadn’t been ordained, or if a layperson went up to the altar to consecrate the elements, would she believe that the elements had become the Body and Blood of Christ? This is virtually what happens in a Lutheran church (from the Catholic perspective), a layman attempts to consecrate the elements. Hence, there is no Real Presence.
Of course, there are other important differences too. Lutherans utterly reject the sacrificial nature of the Eucharist. Catholics can’t do that. Quite simply, the Fathers recognized it, and we’re going to recognize it too. Luther and all of the protestants railed against it.
There’s, of course, more stuff, but I can’t think of anything else off of the top of my head. I hope my characterizations of Lutheran beliefs have been fair-- please correct me if they haven’t been.