Communion or No Communion?

So what’s the deal on this?

cnn.com/2016/11/28/europe/pope-francis-conservative-pushback/

We have to deal with the fact that HH Francis is not going to be clear in what he says and does with regard to Church discipline and how that extends to the Sacraments.

For the last few decades (one might even say centuries) we’ve had popes who were quite clear and direct. Our current Holy Father has a different style–indeed very different. With regard to his two most recent predecessors, whether one agreed or disagreed, everyone knew exactly what they said and meant.

Even the changes he has made to the Code of Canon Law have been, let’s say “a bit ambiguous.”

That is the style of Petrine Ministry that he has chosen. The rest of us simply have to learn to deal with that; and, as I just wrote above, that style is different from what any living person can remember (long before even St JP2), so making that adjustment might not always be easy.

I’ve read some other articles about it (from Catholic sources). Apparently some Cardinals believe that the Pope is teaching something in opposition to Church Teaching. He has, thus far, refused to answer this letter asking him to clarify his position. If he continues to refuse, the Cardinals may have to take a very severe step of effectively reprimanding him. The article I read said the last time this happened was with Pope John XXII.

I must admit as a new Catholic, I am concerned. When I was in the conversion process, I felt that both the Catholic and Orthodox churches were acceptable- they both had all 7 sacraments and valid Holy Orders. I chose Catholic because I truly felt that Our Lord would have left us with a defined head of the Church and that seems to be the largest point of conflict between the two churches. But if Pope Francis turns out to be teaching something untrue and ends up being reprimanded by the Cardinals, it makes me wonder sometimes if perhaps the Orthodox didn’t have it right after all.

The MSM suggesting a civil war is brewing in the Church.

I would suggest that such questions are better answered by one’s local priest than by CNN.

Communion or No Communion? This question misses the point.

There is more to salvation than yeses and noes being tossed around between people. The only clear yes and no is, yes to God, no to sin; those yeses and noes are not easily discernible. AL is encouraging pastors to look for legitimate ways to bring people back into the fold, not just forget about them because they are between a rock and a hard place.

What did the Church expect would happen to marriage and the family when we are surrounded on all sides by a vapid culture so thick that there is no way to see through it without a “road to Demascus” moment from God to give us clarity? But wait, There’s more! Let’s pile on top of that, a Church that no longer has enough clergy to go around. Should I keep going?

The pope is giving (delegating) clergy an opportunity to save people. Some do not seem to want the opportunity (getting dirty) but rather have a clear set of rules with no mitigating exceptions (clean and easy).

Asking for clarification isn’t wrong. You don’t want rogue priests telling someone that something is okay when it’s not, placing their eternal soul in jeopardy. If you have some priests that hold to Traditional teaching, and some that go with a more liberal view you’ll have the divorced priest-shopping to find a liberal one that agrees that they should be able to receive communion. You can’t have Church teaching be arbitrary. We need this to be defined, not left open. Otherwise we risk another schism.

The Church has always had it’s share of the rogue religious. Parish shopping was already alive and well before AL. If I had a confessor who was not willing to consider my individual circumstances in relation to my sin, I would go elsewhere.

It’s already been defined. It’s not “open”. AL states there may be mitigating circumstances that are to be considered; so does the CCC. That’s it. No more. It’s individual. It’s discerned through prayer, spiritual direction and confession, not a “mosaic” type law.

This Pope is too liberal for my taste … I feel he should be forced to come out with a direct answer.

Give the pope a person who wants an answer to the question, “Can I receive Communion?” and the pope will give that person a direct answer after confession, prayer and pastoral discernment of the individual’s past and present circumstances.

Fear not. Thoughout the history of the Church, we have had a few really bad Popes. Pope Francis isn’t like them. However, the Holy Father also doesn’t have the experience that many of the previous popes from the last 100+ years had.

All the Popes from the last 100 years+, till Pope John Paul II, were from Italy and several of them worked in Roman Curia* at one time or another. And while Pope John Paul II didn’t work in the Curia, St. John Paul was a master Theologian and practically had a genius level intellect. Pope BXVI was also a master Theologian, and served in the Roman Curia.

Pope Francis has a Doctorate in Theology, however, I feel he’s more of a pastor (like Pope John Paul I) than a theologian.

NOTE: While almost all Cardinals have a post in the Roman Curia, I’m refering to the ones who live in Rome as a full time member of the Roman Curia vs. an Archbishop who is also a “long distance” member of the Curia.

My point is: Pope Francis is also doing a lot of good too. The majoritiy of Catholics are not coming to Church, and the Pope is focused on bringing them back.

Is it possible that a Pope can be “impeached” by the College of Cardinals?

No, not impeached per se.

But, there has been a theory going back to St. Robert Bellarmine, that a Pope who taught formal heresy would have, in effect, removed himself from the office, or been removed by God (since no heretic can be Pope), and the Papacy would be vacant. The Cardinals would then have to choose a new Pope.

Let us pray we never have to find out.

God Bless

Well, there is the story that Pope John Paul I had planned on loosening some restrictions on Birth Control and that God promptly “took care of the problem.” :rolleyes:

But who really knows? :smiley:

Absolutely not.

Whoever came up with that story should do research in real places not tabloids…

Yeah, like St. John Paul and Benedict, those ogres who could only see black and white…

I might be mistaken, but I do not believe Pope Francis ever finished his doctorate.

This ambiguity is terribly confusing. What does it mean case by case? For some case adultery is OK, for other case adultery is not OK?? Or does it mean all adultery cases are OK all of a sudden?

Remember right before and during the 2015 Synod there was an online petition asking the Holy Father to clarify his position on marriage and family? With 750,000 signatures, the Pope was silent and ignored the faithful’s petition.
tfpstudentaction.org/petitions/sign-this-petition-to-pope-francis-to-save-the-family-at-the-next-synod

It appears the Pope wants to open Communion to devoriced / remarried without annulment.
He made up his mind but did not want to explicitly say it; therefore, the ambiguity.

I don’t think that’s true. The role Pope John Paul I had (and he knew it) was to open the door for St Pope John Paul II.

Pope John Paul I knew that his election as Pope would be a death sentence. Sister Lucia told him about her vision, that he would be the Pope and would die in order to open the door for the a great Pope. JPI believed it and was afraid to become Pope because he wanted to live. But then, realized it was God’s will.

Watch the movie Pope John Paul I - Smile of God. Great movie.

He already addressed this issue in September of 2015.

catholic.com/blog/jimmy-akin/pope-francis-reforms-annulment-process-9-things-to-know-and-share

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