Communion Service questions


#1

Ok I've read a few things here about communion services but I still have a lot of questions especially since I just attended one.

Here's what, specifically, I had questions about:

1) There was no announcement that what I thought was going to be a daily mass, had been changed to a communion service.
2) The "Head of pastoral ministry" - a woman - was leading it
3) She was dressed in an Alb
4) She lead us in - basically - a full Liturgy of the Word, including Gospel (I thought only ordained could read the Gospel in an official service)
5) A Lay person from the audience said the "homily" (also female)
6) The 'leader' - for lack of a better phrase - sat in the deacons chair by the alter
7) She lead us in the Our Father and took up a possition behind the alter with the outstreatched hand possition the priest usually does
8) She elevated the host and said "This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world....." again from behind the alter
9) She blessed us in "the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" at the end - my understanding is only Priests are suposed to bless in an official service; hence the no blessings by Extraordinary Ministers....

10) I was very uncomfortable about the whole thing and I know the Lay have a "sence of the Faith" hence why I'm taking it here.

Was any of what I've listed wrong or right? How bad of infractions were they - if any? What should I do about it, if anything?

Thank you and God Bless :signofcross:


#2

I hope this was a dream; it sounds like a nightmare.:eek:


#3

[quote="PoorKnight, post:1, topic:289693"]
Ok I've read a few things here about communion services but I still have a lot of questions especially since I just attended one.

Here's what, specifically, I had questions about:

1) There was no announcement that what I thought was going to be a daily mass, had been changed to a communion service.
2) The "Head of pastoral ministry" - a woman - was leading it
3) She was dressed in an Alb
4) She lead us in - basically - a full Liturgy of the Word, including Gospel (I thought only ordained could read the Gospel in an official service)
5) A Lay person from the audience said the "homily" (also female)
6) The 'leader' - for lack of a better phrase - sat in the deacons chair by the alter
7) She lead us in the Our Father and took up a possition behind the alter with the outstreatched hand possition the priest usually does
8) She elevated the host and said "This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world....." again from behind the alter
9) She blessed us in "the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" at the end - my understanding is only Priests are suposed to bless in an official service; hence the no blessings by Extraordinary Ministers....

10) I was very uncomfortable about the whole thing and I know the Lay have a "sence of the Faith" hence why I'm taking it here.

Was any of what I've listed wrong or right? How bad of infractions were they - if any? What should I do about it, if anything?

Thank you and God Bless :signofcross:

[/quote]

That doesn't sound like some of the communion services I've been to. As far as I understand they are allowed to be done by a women but should follow guidelines set forth.

But actually I believe everything seems ok...except for I would have doubts about #8 or #9.

What is wrong with leading you in the OUR Father? It's not the Eucharistic prayers.....:shrug:


#4

[quote="PoorKnight, post:1, topic:289693"]
Ok I've read a few things here about communion services but I still have a lot of questions especially since I just attended one.

Here's what, specifically, I had questions about:

1) There was no announcement that what I thought was going to be a daily mass, had been changed to a communion service.
Most people would figure it was obvious based on #2

2) The "Head of pastoral ministry" - a woman - was leading it
That's perfectly OK.

3) She was dressed in an Alb
That also is OK. The alb is a baptismal garment and can be worn by anyone who's been baptized.

4) She lead us in - basically - a full Liturgy of the Word, including Gospel (I thought only ordained could read the Gospel in an official service)
Only at Mass must the Gospel be read by a deacon or a priest. Ideally, different readers should have been used. And even more ideally, such a service should not have happened on a weekday.

5) A Lay person from the audience said the "homily" (also female)
That one is rather 'iffy' but a reflection is usually OK. It may have been a homily prepared by the priest.

6) The 'leader' - for lack of a better phrase - sat in the deacons chair by the alter
As long as she didn't sit in the priest's chair.

7) She lead us in the Our Father and took up a possition behind the alter with the outstreatched hand possition the priest usually does.
That's where she should be at that point and as the leader of prayer, the orans position is OK.

8) She elevated the host and said "This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world....." again from behind the alter
As she should.

9) She blessed us in "the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" at the end - my understanding is only Priests are suposed to bless in an official service; hence the no blessings by Extraordinary Ministers....
How exactly was it worded? Did she say bless 'you' or did she say bless 'us'? It makes a difference.

10) I was very uncomfortable about the whole thing and I know the Lay have a "sence of the Faith" hence why I'm taking it here.

Was any of what I've listed wrong or right? How bad of infractions were they - if any? What should I do about it, if anything?

Thank you and God Bless :signofcross:

[/quote]


#5

[quote="Annabelle_Marie, post:3, topic:289693"]
That doesn't sound like some of the communion services I've been to. As far as I understand they are allowed to be done by a women but should follow guidelines set forth.

But actually I believe everything seems ok...except for I would have doubts about #8 or #9.

What is wrong with leading you in the OUR Father? It's not the Eucharistic prayers.....:shrug:

[/quote]

The Our Father in the Roman Rite has for the better part of 1500 years has been said by the priest alone, save the last verse and some local exceptions. This isn't the case any more, but in the context of the Mass the Our Father still is a priestly prayer; this is where it is rooted. EDIT: I understand this isn't a Mass, just as the "presider" reads the Gospel, so my argument is to a small extent irrelevant.

People (including clergy) will say all they will approving of what you attended. There simply is no historical precedent for it, whether led by a woman or man (deacon or lay). I would stay clear from this.


#6

I've had this happen to me. It's my cue to walk out the door. I don't participate in Communion services. Period.

I don't say that the Church can't have them. I suppose they might be necessary in outer mongolia or someplace. I don't have to go to any. Ever.


#7

[quote="BertBlyleven, post:5, topic:289693"]
The Our Father in the Roman Rite has for the better part of 1500 years has been said by the priest alone, save the last verse and some local exceptions. This isn't the case any more, but in the context of the Mass the Our Father still is a priestly prayer; this is where it is rooted.

People (including clergy) will say all they will approving of what you attended. There simply is no historical precedent for it, whether led by a woman or man (deacon or lay). I would stay clear from this.

[/quote]

I believe the Our Father is allowed to be led in a communion service. So I think you are wrong about that.

Shoot...during the stations of the cross one time I ended up having to be the leader...and led everyone in the Our Father. That is not an abuse....seriously? It may not be something you like...but still not an abuse.

Communion services are allowed...I don't normally attend them...but have a few times when our priest was out of town...and the fill in priest from the Abbey was sick....whatcha gonna do?:shrug:

BTW our communion services are followed completely from the "script" set up by the priest and the deacon we had at the time.

But I am not the OP...so it wasn't me that attended this service.


#8

What I said was true, but I specified in Mass (I edited the post to clarify), and probably all public liturgy as well (up to 1963). You can lead the Our Father outside of Mass, that’s not what I was referring to.


#9

Well…this wasn’t Mass either that the OP was talking about…it was a communion service. Which by it’s definition would be happening because there is no priest…


#10

[quote="PoorKnight, post:1, topic:289693"]
Ok I've read a few things here about communion services but I still have a lot of questions especially since I just attended one.

Here's what, specifically, I had questions about:

1) There was no announcement that what I thought was going to be a daily mass, had been changed to a communion service.
2) The "Head of pastoral ministry" - a woman - was leading it
3) She was dressed in an Alb
4) She lead us in - basically - a full Liturgy of the Word, including Gospel (I thought only ordained could read the Gospel in an official service)
5) A Lay person from the audience said the "homily" (also female)
6) The 'leader' - for lack of a better phrase - sat in the deacons chair by the alter
7) She lead us in the Our Father and took up a possition behind the alter with the outstreatched hand possition the priest usually does
8) She elevated the host and said "This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world....." again from behind the alter
9) She blessed us in "the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" at the end - my understanding is only Priests are suposed to bless in an official service; hence the no blessings by Extraordinary Ministers....

10) I was very uncomfortable about the whole thing and I know the Lay have a "sence of the Faith" hence why I'm taking it here.

Was any of what I've listed wrong or right? How bad of infractions were they - if any? What should I do about it, if anything?

Thank you and God Bless :signofcross:

[/quote]

There was absolutely nothing wrong in what you have listed. The "homily" was, in fact, a "reflection on the Gospel" and is permissible.

As long as the blessing was "bless us" and not "bless you" and so long as the person saying the blessing made the sign of the cross on herself and not the way the priest does it, everything was fine.

The items listed are exactly as set down in the church for Communion Services. I know it seems like a Mass without the consecration, but that is how the Church wants it to be done.

Your clue to there not being Mass is when you see no sign of the chalice and the cruets on the altar or the credence table.


#11

[quote="Joan_M, post:10, topic:289693"]
Your clue to there not being Mass is when you see no sign of the chalice and the cruets on the altar or the credence table.

[/quote]

Or when the person up there is a woman.:)


#12

Opinion Post:

I personally find these “Father Sister Masses” to be painful and I avoid them at all costs.

Scandalizing the faithful or the near appearance of, is never appropriate and these types of Communion Services does just that.


#13

Was this during the week or on Sunday? These communion services aren't supposed to happen during the week.


#14

[quote="Deo_Gratias42, post:13, topic:289693"]
Was this during the week or on Sunday? These communion services aren't supposed to happen during the week.

[/quote]

This was a weekday.

My concern with the Our Father wasn't the recitation of the prayer, it was that she was behind the alter with her arms outstretched like the Priest does to gather our prayers and direct them to God, as it was explained to me.

Honestly I don't recall if she said "God bless us" of "God Bless you".... I spent most of the service praying that the service wasn't displeasing to Him... my stomach was in a knot.

I know both our deacon and our priest have expressed the disapointment that the Church will not allow women priests and that the Church won't back off the phrase "disordered" in discussing homosexuality. So I'm aware of my parish's leanings. I just want to make sure that they're doing what they're allowed to do and not trying to "ask for forgiveness rather than asking for permission".

Does anyone have any links to the rubrics (sp?) of a communion service?

God Bless :signofcross:


#15

Here is a link to a guide from the Diocese of Eire that I found on the net
eriercd.org/pdf/comsrvp.pdf

How does the non-ordained presider receive communion, since lay people can not self communicate?

Then again, there's also this from 2008:

ROCKVILLE CENTRE, NY (CNA) - Bishop of Rockville Centre William Murphy has issued a pastoral letter restricting the practice of Communion services at parishes and schools in his diocese.

He said the ban on Communion services would bring the archdiocese into conformity with the liturgical norms of the Church.

Writing in an eight-page letter sent on Friday, Bishop Murphy reflected on the importance of the Eucharist. "The Eucharist is the greatest gift Jesus left us… The celebration of the Eucharist gives us our identity as well as our life,” he said.

The bishop said that Communion services, in practice, often sever what he called “the connection between receiving the Sacrament and celebrating the sacrifice.”

“The two go hand-in-hand,” he continued. “Receiving the Sacrament is the culmination of participating in the sacrifice.”


#16

[quote="PoorKnight, post:14, topic:289693"]
I just want to make sure that they're doing what they're allowed to do and not trying to "ask for forgiveness rather than asking for permission".

Does anyone have any links to the rubrics (sp?) of a communion service?

God Bless :signofcross:

[/quote]

Here is a document that might give you a good idea of what is and is not acceptable.

davenportdiocese.org/lit/liturgylibrary/Policies/litSCAP-WeekdayLOW-LayPreach-updated112711.pdf


#17

[quote="Phemie, post:16, topic:289693"]
Here is a document that might give you a good idea of what is and is not acceptable.

davenportdiocese.org/lit/liturgylibrary/Policies/litSCAP-WeekdayLOW-LayPreach-updated112711.pdf

[/quote]

This helped alot. Looks like, at least according to this, everything was kosher. But I think I'm going to take the same stance as several here. I was so uncomfortable, I'm probably not going to stay for another one...

Thank you all. Please feel free to post more resources if you come across any others.

:signofcross:


#18

[quote="PaulinVA, post:15, topic:289693"]
How does the non-ordained presider receive communion, since lay people can not self communicate?

[/quote]

In the case of a Communion Service the EMHC does self-communicate. Obviously they can't do that when there is a priest to give them Communion, but in a Communion Service that's what they do, it's how the service is set up.


#19

[quote="Phemie, post:18, topic:289693"]
In the case of a Communion Service the EMHC does self-communicate. Obviously they can't do that when there is a priest to give them Communion, but in a Communion Service that's what they do, it's how the service is set up.

[/quote]

ewtn.com/Library/Liturgy/zlitur57.htm

Yes, you are right. It doesn't make sense, but this person thinks it's true:

Related to this, some readers tied this question to a previous answer in which I stated that an extraordinary minister of holy Communion should not self-communicate.

    Once more, this reply was related to serving at Mass. Both the deacon       and the lay extraordinary minister of Communion may communicate         themselves if called upon to distribute Communion outside of Mass and if        they have no other opportunity to receive Communion at Mass during the          day.

#20

Yeah, no Communion services for me.

They have to have a priest somewhere in the vicinity in order to consecrate for the Communion service.

I'll just cut out the middle man and show up for the consecration because it happens during a mass. It's all good.


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