Communist Party of China and Vatican deal


Loyal orthodox bishops quitting so that bishops loyal to a brutal dictator can be appointed, in exchange for recognition from the atheist Communist Party of Rome’s supremacy in the Chinese CTholic Church.


Thank you for posting and drawing attention to this important issue! While everyone is focused on the massive homosexual abuse crisis, this gets slipped through with little notice.

China, an atheistic and communist country, has decided which men should be bishops. (I.E. will not oppose the communist agenda). These bishops were excommunicated precisely because they cannot serve God and mammon……especially when it is mammon’s goal to utterly destroy the Mystical Body of Christ. The underground Bishops in China have already been asked to step aside to make way for the “new” authority. Can you imagine trying to live as a Catholic in China today?


It appears that Cd McCarrick has been involved in negotiations with Chinese authorities and the excommunicated bishops. From 2016 article:

Early in February, American Cardinal Theodore McCarrick traveled to China - a trip in which the cardinal said he would visit some "old friends." While the cardinal insisted in an exclusive interview with the Global Times that he was not visiting in his "official capacity," his trip has shown that ties are growing more comfortable.

Cardinal McCarrick, former archbishop of Washington, DC, is the first cardinal from a Western country to visit the Chinese mainland since Sino-Vatican ties turned sour, South China Morning Post reported. He has reportedly visited China eight times since the 1990s.

His previous visits included meetings with Wang Zuo’an, head of the State Administration for Religious Affairs and late bishop Fu Tieshan, former president of Bishop Conference of the Catholic Church in China (BCCCC), an organization not recognized by the Holy See.

Visiting archbishops may carry messages from the Vatican as the pontiff’s envoys, according to Liu Guopeng, an associate research fellow at the Institute of World Religion Studies of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.

Cardinal McCarrick also stressed how the similarities between the two leaders can be "a special gift for the world."
"A lot of things that China worries about,[Pope Francis] worries about, about the care of poor, older people, children, our civilization and especially the ecology. I see a lot of things happening that would really open many doors because President Xi and his government is concerned about things that Pope Francis concerned about," the cardinal said.

Also from the article:
The atheist Chinese will submit names of bishops. The pope can either accept or reject but China made it clear, they would not submit an endless list of candidates. “We may have to appoint bishops unapproved by the pontiff after a set number of rounds of negotiations.”

  • Who will REALLY be in charge of the Catholic Church in China?
  • Will the concern be for salvation of souls or a social justice for the poor, elderly and the ecology?


I do not know all of the details of this agreement, but I suspect people are over reacting. It is nothing new that the Church has to reach an agreement with a totalitarian government in order to continue Her mission as best as possible. There is always give and take, but the Church has to keep Sacraments available and move forward with evangelization to the best extent possible in a bad situation.

I would remind everyone that the Polish communist government had veto power over Bishop appointments in Poland throughout the 50s and 60s. In 1963 it took the Vatican seven tries before they appointed a Bishop of Krakow that was approved by the communists. Sometimes the Good Lord works in mysterious ways :slight_smile:


Part of the problem is that the deal IR experts all predicted was that all the bishops loyal, and Communist, would be on board.

Now it seems loyal bishops must step down.

More importantly, the Communist Party is being given more than veto power.

All in all, a more disappointing deal than I (anyway) was expecting from this bad situation; and worse than the deal with Poland.

But thank you for reminding us of context, which of course goes back to kings in the Middle Ages.


It is a slap to the face of the persecuted underground Catholics in China. With a pervert cardinal’s fingerprints all over it, no less.


That is horrendous. I am appalled.


This is a sad development if the deal does indeed go through. Talk about taking the persecuted Catholics and throwing them under the bus. Religious persecution in China is increasing. Any deal that gives the Chinese government any power over the Church is doomed.


I was reading yesterday about someone trying to get baptized in China if I am not misstating it in one of the other forums here. It was fascinating, I forget which forum it was and maybe that person who posted it is participating in this forum.


Wondering if the Communists in Poland allowed children to attend Mass and sacraments….because in China, they don’t.

“Communist authorities are continuing to tighten their grip on practicing Christians with at least four regional governments across China issuing notices that restrict children from joining Christian groups and attending religious activities.
The ban includes turning children away from churches even if they attend with their parents and teachers.”

Crosses, statues, bell towers and other religious features are being demolished by order of communist authorities.

China’s government has been requesting all priests, including those from the underground church, to register for a “clergyman certificate” so that the government could monitor them.

Bishop Peter Fang Jianping of the Patriotic Catholic Church “expressed support for President Xi Jinping, saying their citizenship takes priority over religion and beliefs.”

I do not question the good will of Pope Francis in assisting Catholics in China, as he seems to be attempting.

But is he delivering faithful Catholics from the Underground Church into the lair of the Red Dragon, the Chinese Communist Party, through the Patriotic Bishops who believe "citizenship takes priority over religion and belief?"
St Thomas More, please pray for them!


No one is more anti-communist than I. And I don’t trust the Chinese government either. I admit, the Church’s history of success in these type of deals us a mixed bag. All I am saying is this type of thing is not that unusual, and I do not know enough about the details to make a judgement that Pope Francis is making a huge mistake in this case. I do not think any of us do.


I think the point is that there are some key (and very troubling differences) between this arrangement and previous ones.

Point being, if one is acquainted with the details, it is quite a possibilty that:
This is a mistake.

And that possibility is worth our consideration.


Mother of Sorrows, pray for the Catholic Church in China!


That there are differences is not surprising, I suspect they are all different. That they are troubling, I cannot say. On the surface many of the details of these types of aggreement are troubling. By definition, you are dealing with thugs, or you wouldn’t need to be making an agreement.
Karol Wojtyla was only made Archbishop of Krakow because the Polish Communist boss said he was going to veto every name submitted by Rome until he got Wojtyla.


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