Condemned before or after hearing the gospel of Christ?

Are we condemned before or after we hear the gospel of Jesus Christ? This is a very significant question since I believe Christ came to save sinners and He did not come to condemn us. I believe the answer can be found in the Gospel of John, chapter 3. The Catholic Cathechism which is part of Sacred Tradition can also answer this same basic essential question.

Are we condemned before or after hearing the gospel of God’s grace?

You asked this question in another thread. Did you answer all of the questions put to you that you have thus far failed to answer?

If you have not, then I firmly suggest to my Catholic brothers and sisters to not answer any more questions posed by this person until such time as equal answers are forthcoming to our questions.:smiley:

I think this question was asked of you in another thread. I’d like to hear your definitive answer. I’m not nearly well versed in the Bible to give an answer yet based on scripture, or church teaching - BUT - for me, up to a few weeks ago, I dont see how I could personally have been damned as I did not know any better. NOW - I do, and I feel the urgency inside me to educate myself and pray because if I dont I fear what might be in store for me :eek:

Had I died not knowing any better, I would thenn discover that oops there is a God, but I would presume upon His Mercy.

I think :confused:

That’s okay my friend. I will post the Catholic Catechism answer and the biblical answer on this thread tomorrow, Lord willing. You cannot hide from the light of God. The very sad thing about a lack of response is the subject matter. This is directly related to missions and need of bringing the great good news to sinners. Does Christ and Him crucified on behalf of sinners mean much to Roman Catholics anymore? Has the Roman Catholic Church bought into religious pluralism so much that they have opened a way to the Father without Faith in Jesus Christ?

Here is the question again: Are we condemned before of after hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Please pray and study chapter 3 in the gospel of John, and Romans chapter 10 and you will have the answer according to divine revelation from above. If you don’t own a bible, please go to bible.com.

You my friend are bordering on becoming very OFFENSIVE.

These forums are not your missions or hunting grounds, and that is implicitly spelled out in the forum rules.

I find your questions and assertions.insinuations offensive.

I might be inclined to suggest that rather than get access to a Bible that is not true to the original manuscripts… go here: drbo.org/index.htm

It is the on line version of the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible which contains all 73 books as were contained in the Latin Vulgate, which was translated from the original manuscripts.

It’s a very simple question. Are we condemned before or after hearing the gopsel of Jesus Christ. You can answer according to the Holy Scriptures. Or you can answer according to the Catholic Catechism.

1 Corinthians 9:16

For if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. For necessity is laid upon me. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!

As stated before…when you answer the questions put to you, you might just get answers…until then…not likely, at least not from me, and it appears not from too many others.

We are condemned before we heard the gospel, because we are all born in original sin and are enemies to God; we are also condemned after we heard the gospel, if we reject it.

That is an incomplete question. Condemned for what?

Thank you for the answer brother. This came up on another thread and a Catholic brother posted that people are condemned when they reject Christ and not before. I think he quoted the Catholic Catechism about people being saved apart from Christ. If you know the reference in the Catechism, could you please post it?

We cannot change the greatest good news of God into bad accountable news. Christ came to rescue us from our condemned condition for our sins and rebellion against Him.

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” - John 3

Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: “The man who does these things will live by them.” But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"[g]  - Rom 10

One can be condemned before hearing the gospel, and one can be condemned after hearing the gospel. If you think John 3 says anything differently, then let’s see it. If you believe the Catholic Church teaches anything other than that, then you didn’t keep your copy of the catechism long enough:

1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one's passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church's authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.

1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.

Ignorance of the Gospel alone does not give a person a pass. God has been revealing himself since the beginning of humanity. A person can condemn himself by failing to follow what has been revealed, whether before or after he has heard the Gospel.

Already posted here: forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=4302166&postcount=147

A person is condemned in Adam, before we are even born. A person is also condemned for his personal sins too. Therefore, a sinner is condemned before he hears the gospel, and never after.
Christ came to rescue us from our already condemned condition. I’m not sure what you mean by we can be condemned after we hear the gospel because we are already condemned, separated from God, and dead in our sins and trespasses. I want to see the part of the Catechism which gives hope for those who can be saved apart from Faith in Christ, such as those in non-Christian religions (Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc). I hope you post it for me, because I already read it from a posting from another Catholic. I too have access to the Catholic Catechism.

The light of general revelation (Rom 1), conscience (Rom 2) and additional universal revelation adds to our condemnation and leaves all mankind without excuse. Only the revelation of His Son in the gospel of God’s grace can save a sinner from their condemned condition for their sins. We are all under the wrath of God until we are united to Christ by Faith.

John 3:36

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” - John 3

Ok the original sin bit I get now, I think. But are you saying, that after hearing the Gospel of Jesus, and being made aware of the need to proclaim Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, I do so, so I’m saved, because I have heard the Gospel - even if I then continue to live an immoral and unaccountable life, the only difference being I have heard the Gospel and believe now in God???

I get that believing in God will affect how I live my life, but what if I fall back into my old ways, I’ve still heard the Gospel at that stage, am I still saved?

Again, your patience is appreciated if my questions are irritating - I’m asking honestly and openly seeking knowledge.

Your questions are always welcomed! Could you please do this? Please pray and read 1 John and let’s talk tommorow.

gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=1+john+1-5

Sure.

Condemned to what? The only thing you can possibly mean is condemned to hell. If this is true, then every unborn child is condemned to hell according to you. Every person in history before the gospel was revealed is condemned to hell according to you. And you are wrong in your final sentence. A sinner can very well be condemned after hearing the gospel, particularly if he rejects it.

Christ came to rescue us from our already condemned condition. I’m not sure what you mean by we can be condemned after we hear the gospel because we are already condemned, separated from God, and dead in our sins and trespasses.

Okay, then concede that every newborn child is condemned to hell because they haven’t heard the Gospel. Concede all of the above as well. Hearing the Gospel is not the same thing as accepting the Gospel in any case. You can hear the Gospel and be condemned if you reject it.

I want to see the part of the Catechism which gives hope for those who can be saved apart from Faith in Christ, such as those in non-Christian religions (Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc). I hope you post it for me, because I already read it from a posting from another Catholic. I too have access to the Catholic Catechism.

No one can be saved apart from faith in Christ, but that faith is not required to be explicit in the way you demand. If you had the guidance of the apostolic churches you would know that. The pre-Christian church could never have explicit faith in Christ that was available after the new covenant. Nevertheless, salvation of the old covenant believers must be seen in view of the merits of Christ.

There is no quote in the Catholic catechism that states someone can be saved apart from faith in Christ. You assume that because someone is a practicing Hindu etc. that he must have no faith in Christ whatsoever, even implicitly. This is not necessarily the case. If you think that it is, then swallow the reductio and admit that unborn children, infants, those who have never been preached the gospel, and everybody who existed prior to the Incarnation are damned to hell.

Originally Posted by Reformed
According to the Catholic Catechism, what happens to the Hindu, Muslum, and other non-Christian who worships god?

Post 73, 78, 88, 96, 114, 138, 144 - forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=276435&page=5

Please post the Catechism reference on how those who have not heard of Christ may be saved. I would like to compare this Sacred Tradition with Scripture. This goes beyond a theological debate on Catholic Answers Forum. This goes to the very core of Christ and Him crucified, the gospel proclamation, and eternity.

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