Do you have a question about condom use and the church position and perhaps your thoughts about it? That’s what this topic is all about my friend. No more no less. it’s not about me.
I asked you about your understanding of intrinsic evil, intrinsically disordered acts.
I ask our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters to please purchase the book Catechism of the Catholic Church (ISBN: 1-57455-110-8) Every diocese in the United States should be able to help us obtain this book through them or they can direct us to a parish gift shop, book store (I have seen this book at the religion shelf at a Barnes and Noble store in Fort myers, FL) or online (cost approx.$20-$25).
Catechism of the Catholic Church page 570 (CCC)2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods,is in conformity of the objective criteria of morality. 158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast,“every action which, whether in anticipation of the congugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the developmentof its natural consequences, proposes,whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil. 159
Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife, is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality… The difference,both anthropological, and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle… involves the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality. 160
158 HV16 (HV- Humanae Vitae Encyclical July 25,1968 Pope Paul VI)
159 HV14 (HV- Humanae Vitae Encyclical July 25,1968 Pope Paul VI)
160 FC 32 (FC- Familiaris Consortio Apostolic exhortation November 22,1981 Pope John
Are you obsessed about being intrinsic: meaning… (inherinent, essental, inate, belonging to the thing in itself) I was sincerely joking to appease the poster about disordered but I hope you knew that. I’m just a mortal man, and l leave it my maker to Judge me. And you?
And God let us invent gas chambers and nuclear bombs. Just because God allows us to invent something doesn’t mean that the Church should approve it’s use.
Condoms do prevent** some** disease! I have no need to list them…, you can do your own research.
I never said you are going to burn in hell. Are you judging me?
I am not paying .30 cents or $100.000.00 period! Either provides no guarantees in life.
I think you are trying to gain favor by bringing up disease as your main catalyst for the condom debate in Catholicism by gaining some sympathy for your rationale.
IF people like “me and you are merely examples of what can work,” why are you asking the titled question? You know you should go and preach to youth and misguided people to respect themselves, there are more consequences of sin nowadays than anything else from all aspects of sex.
A condom? I do not think that a person, a therapist, a parent, a doctor, a coworker, a mentor, a best friend, a relative, a neighbor…, is ever in any good judgment or place to suggest to anyone else to use that over the “Just don’t do it” advice…, now I live in the real world…, I do not, by option choose to indulge in it…, but someone who truly cares for you will not say that, they will say the latter, someone who suggests a condom is egging you or someone else on, and I would never listen to that advice.
Disease is your main focus…, well you can catch diseases and/or viruses breathing the air…you think it is fair for someone like me, or you for that matter, who have no diseases to find and marry someone who may have a disease? Whether genital or hereditary or accidental…, if you love that person, you could marry them, you must forgive their past if they did something that sparked from wild erratic past behaviors as long as they learned from that lesson…, are you to remind them of their inadequacies by making sure you never get disease by forcing them to wear a condom which will also lead to never allowing yourselves to have children. One thing leads to the other. Condoms are just a little thing that causes so many things to spin out of control.
You want the control, ultimately, you know, it’s all in God’s hands. Just let it be, naturally.
I’m only speaking of maybe they have some use in the prevention of STD’s HIV for many people. It’s ok if they seem silly and have no meaning for you or Jim Bob Dugger 18 and counting personally. I understand that and the more, the merrier. Knock yourselves out. I’m not promoting it solely for birth control.
The Church’s teaching is that condom use is intrinsically wrong. End of story. Whether it’s to prevent conception between married people, unmarried people, married people trying to prevent the spread of HIV to each other, whatever.
It’s the theology behind the position that makes it wrong. You can’t pick and choose what’s right and wrong in a specific instance if you violate the underlying theology.
Yes, condoms can lower the birth rate. Yes, condoms can prevent the spread of some STDs. But, condom use is illicit.
And, again, what is a new age Catholic? New Age philosophy isn’t compatible with Catholic teaching.
The church continues to teach morals to stop STD, HIV/AIDS but can’t stop free will. Its like I don’t see why build a fence to stop someone from jumping off a cliff intentionally. Just my two cents.
The Senior Harvard Research Scientist for AIDS Prevention tends to believe that condoms are not preventing the spread of HIV in Africa. Interesting…
Uh, actually, It does seem to be all about you. It’s all about your feelings, it’s all about what you think and not really about what the Catholic Church teaches or believes. You are not interested in what anyone replies, you merely plow on to your next point and skip the ones you don’t want to answer. It doesn’t seem you were so much asking a question as making some kind of statement.
By the way, you don’t need to earn $250,000 a year to donate money to anyone. People do it all the time. Do you remember the story of the widow and her small contribution? Perhaps, but that wouldn’t jive with some other point you were trying to make that was not a question about condom use and Church position either. And that WAS what your topic was supposedly all about. No more no less…
These topics have points and counter points, opinions. Controversial for sure. Moderators, from my understanding and I’m still learning, prefer us to stick to the topic as best we can and discuss the issues which can mean many opinions of course. It’s not about me personally or any poster to attack. Correct me if I’m wrong. If you want to visit my profile, draw a personal opinion about me and send along a courteous private message, my in box is always open.
New Age Catholic,
God bless you in your faith journey!
Please allow me to not address your specific question/comment about condoms…but allow me to address your comment in more general terms.
Many people have questions about the teachings of the Catholic church. It can be good to ask questions as it can reaffirm your faith!
You seem to question whether or not the church is right in condemning the use of condoms. I offer that a person could argue many things about the church! You could argue whether or not Christ is really present in the Eucharist, you could argue the Virginity of Mary, you could argue in favor or homosexual “marriage” or (like yourself) could bring up arguements for condom use and the list goes on.
Please understand many people here love the church so dearly and so deeply that repeated questions about the validity of her teachings is taken quite personally. Debating church teaching is not the same as debating politics…to many people it is much more personal than that.
I am glad that you came here and appreciate you are questioning things about your faith. I hope and pray that Christ guides you to the truth and that you somehow find peace in this dilemna that seems to be bothering you.
Blessings to you!
Glad to have your thoughts on the matter which I respect a great deal. Do you understand about what good condoms can do in our realistic society where abstaining for many worldwide does not seem to happen. I wish to God it did. We have that in common perhaps. I welcome further discussion from everyone. Do these condoms encourage promiscuity in your considered and respected opinion more than their use protects against STD’s? They do have value, do they not?
Condoms, because they make people think there is such a thing as “sex without consequences” ARE the problem, not the solution.
It’s called self control. Who decides when you have sex? There were literally fewer STDs in the 1950s and 1960s. Parents were referred to as strict as opposed to today when the kids cuss out mom in public. Growing up in the 50s and 60s, we knew that if we did that a near death experience would follow. Honor thy father and mother. We took that seriously.
Not anymore. Today, even kids have the idea that no one can tell them what to do. There was a period in the 1980s when lawyers decided to go litigation crazy. I was in a supermarket one day and picked up a pot with this warning label on the bottom: When placed on a hot surface, this pot will get hot. Duh.
A few years back, a lawyer decided to sue McDonald’s because a teenage boy hit 500 pounds and became diabetic. Where was mom at 200, 300, 400? She was standing next to him on TV.
I was there in Catholic High School when mandatory sex education started in 1973 – and things have gotten worse. In the 50s and 60s, you could take your date to dinner and a movie where boy meets girl, fall in love and get married. What do we have today? Boy meets girl, hop in the sack, and maybe even get to know each other. This is better?
Porn was difficult to find or get in the 50s and 60s. You had to be an adult. It was behind the counter, and it featured not too much. Now, due to many expensive legal actions, you can buy much worse in a gas station or supermarket. This is better?
In 1968, the Church issued the encyclical Humani Generis. It basically said, you will value the love of your life less if you use artificial birth control. And it warned Catholics of what would happen if they used Condoms and/or The Pill – a lot of promiscuity and adultery. This is quickly followed by Hippies running around yelling Free Love! The so-called Sexual Revolution was on.
In 1969, Hollywood introduces everybody to wife swapping in Bob, Carol, Ted and Alice.
1970s: So-called Adult Bookstores open everywhere selling porn. Topless go-go bars open.
In 1973, the worst form of contraception is legalized - abortion.
As a boy, I understood there were limits to dating and we knew the girls understood that too. There were mutual rules of engagement and getting to know each other that most of us followed. But, when a small group started running around and telling everyone: Your mom and dad, priests and nuns, don’t know anything. Smoke dope, have sex with your girlfriend. Freedom! Freedom from what? The foundation of our lives? Civilized behavior?
Sex education has been around for 40 years and things are not better.
Hi New Age Catholic, Good to see you again! (As you may know I was banned for a bit, but I am now back!)
Very very good post. What you are talking here is the literal life and death of many many people. Comdom use save lives and prevents unwanted pregnacies. They are life savers!!
Abstinace should be the way if one is not married, however as we all know many people do not have those values. Thus to prevent disease and unwanted pregnancies condoms are are very very needed and should be encouraged.
Also many people who are for abstinance (like me) sometimes get into situations where they do things that they normally would not do. Sometimes in certain emotional circumstances we do things (like sex) that when we are in our regular minds, we would not do. Thus condoms are very very needed for, even people who don’t think they do it, or tell themselves they don’t do it, but actually they do, do it.
The costs of condoms are cheap but what they prevent is enormous. Condoms are one of the best things we have going in our society to protect people (from themselves).
If we are really serious about lowering disease, death and abortions, condoms certainly need to be promoted everywhere. Condoms save lives.
One statement I had heard someone say a while back that really kind of reminds me of this discussion. It was basically that with offering condoms to anyone and everyone it’s like saying, well you shouldn’t have sex before marriage, but here’s some condoms because I know you can’t remain chaste.
When saying “Yes, everyone should remain chaste before marriage, but, condoms are the best thing ever because we all know most people have sex before marriage.” it’s like saying that it’s okay to have sex before marriage because you know most people are doing it.
Condoms only add to the problem, not solve it. I do believe they only help with sexual promiscuity. If people would see that sex before marriage is not a good thing, we wouldn’t have a need for condoms then would we? We wouldn’t have people sleeping around spreading STD’s.
Ageed. I never had sex until age 25. I did not know or needed to know what a condom was or could do at age 12, 16. Today, it is a different world. We can and should promote ideals and no sexual activity. However, I realize it falls on deaf ears and so, yes, it is good to do the next best thing. Try to keep people safe as possible,. Condoms are not fun to use, but prevent STD’s, that even a hard core bible thumper cannot deny.
PS: Welcome back Seeker. I’ve always found your posts worthwhile.
yep that sums it up for me.
but just so there is no mistake, I support the Popes statements regarding condoms.