Confession = re-baptism...?


#1

*Baptism is God tossing a rope down and kind of tying you on; Confirmation is you reaching out and grabbing the rope.

Ropes are made of a bunch of different fibers; venial sins are cutting fibers.

Mortal sins are slicing through the entire rope, cutting you off from God.

Confession is you and God working together at tying a knot in the rope, basically having the same effect as Baptism, but not as perfect as Baptism.*

Does this analogy hold? Because I really really like it.


#2

[quote=cardenio]Baptism is God tossing a rope down and kind of tying you on; Confirmation is you reaching out and grabbing the rope.

Ropes are made of a bunch of different fibers; venial sins are cutting fibers.

Mortal sins are slicing through the entire rope, cutting you off from God.

Confession is you and God working together at tying a knot in the rope, basically having the same effect as Baptism, but not as perfect as Baptism.

Does this analogy hold? Because I really really like it.
[/quote]

I like the rope analogy when describing the effect of venial sins. You the more you fray the rope, the more likely you are to completely snap it.

As for the rest of your analogy, it sounds good to me.


#3

I’m not sure I agree with the analogy. Baptism is a cleansing of our original sin, and confirmation is receiveing the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Many folks choose to grab on to that proverbial rope long before they get confirmed.

While venial sins wound our soul, I’m not sure they damage our overall link to God in the way the analogy implies. If that were the case, one could commit enough venial sins that they would sever the rope having never committed a mortal sin.

Finally, while confession restores our grace with God, it’s not a lesser sacrament than Baptism. Reconcilliation is the only sacrament other than Eucharist where we can come to Christ on a regular basis. Additionally a knotted rope implies that it is not whole or still flawed in some way. Christ’s forgiveness is complete.


#4

[quote=StCsDavid]I’m not sure I agree with the analogy. Baptism is a cleansing of our original sin, and confirmation is receiveing the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Many folks choose to grab on to that proverbial rope long before they get confirmed.

While venial sins wound our soul, I’m not sure they damage our overall link to God in the way the analogy implies. If that were the case, one could commit enough venial sins that they would sever the rope having never committed a mortal sin.

Finally, while confession restores our grace with God, it’s not a lesser sacrament than Baptism. Reconcilliation is the only sacrament other than Eucharist where we can come to Christ on a regular basis. Additionally a knotted rope implies that it is not whole or still flawed in some way. Christ’s forgiveness is complete.
[/quote]

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It’s also worth noting that Confirmation is not the believer confirming his belief in the Church, but rather the Church confirming the belief of the believer.


#5

The sacrament of reconciliation does not necessarily wipe away the temporal punishment that comes with sin. But baptism does.


#6

I would really make sure to emphasize in your mind that baptism confers a distinct character, literally a seal on your soul which confession does not. For this reason the Church holds the sacrament of baptism in a league of its own.

Maybe focus on how both sacraments wash you clean, which indeed they do and in this sense confession is similar to baptism.


#7

I’m sorry, but I think that is the case. I’ve heard (I think by Scott Hahn) venial sin referred to as pin pricks to our soul. Not any one of them will kill off our soul, but if you get enough of them, you will be separated from God, enough to go to hell.

Consider that someone is lukewarm in their faith. Without committing any venial sin, wouldn’t they, in theory, not be able to attain heaven?

NotWorthy


#8

This is clear in the Catechism.

*[

**

](“http://www.kofc.org/publications/cis/catechism/getsection.cfm?partnum=3&SecNum=1&ChapNum=1&articlenum=8&ParSecNum=0&subSecNum=4&headernum=0&ParNum=1863&ParType=a”)Part 3, Section 1, Chapter 1, Article 8, SubSection 4 %between%

1863 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul’s progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin. However venial sin does not break the covenant with God. With God’s grace it is humanly reparable. “Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness.” 134While he is in the flesh, man cannot help but have at least some light sins. But do not despise these sins which we call “light”: if you take them for light when you weigh them, tremble when you count them. A number of light objects makes a great mass; a number of drops fills a river; a number of grains makes a heap. What then is our hope? Above all, confession. 135[/indent] *


#9

Can I ask a quite similar question to the on on this thread.

If one commits a grave sin, or mortal sin,(this may lead to a difference in answer depending on the severity of the sin) and by Church teaching requires sacremental confession. Is that person starting out fresh with God and the Church, in terms of personal sanctification as if they had not had any previous level of sanctification before their fall, or do they revert back to their former level of sanctification that they had prior to comitting the sins, and thus can start and build up from where they left off?

I just figured that this would have a bearing on purgatory. Because if you must start from the lowest level of sanctification then one has a long way to go!

does anyone get my drift on the question and I wonder can anyone clarify the answer. I thought the CCC was slightly vague. --maybe I just havnt read enough of it! :o


#10

From the CCC this may help in answering the question:

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

**1440 **Sin is before all else an offense against God, a rupture of communion with him. At the same time it damages communion with the Church. For this reason conversion entails both God’s forgiveness and reconciliation with the Church, which are expressed and accomplished liturgically by the sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation

**1446 **Christ instituted the sacrament of Penance for all sinful members of his Church: above all for those who, since Baptism, have fallen into grave sin, and have thus lost their baptismal grace and wounded ecclesial communion. It is to them that the sacrament of Penance offers a new possibility to convert and to recover the grace of justification. The Fathers of the Church present this sacrament as "the second plank [of salvation] after the shipwreck which is the loss of grace
**1455 **The confession (or disclosure) of sins, even from a simply human point of view, frees us and facilitates our reconciliation with others. Through such an admission man looks squarely at the sins he is guilty of, takes responsibility for them, **and thereby opens himself again to God and to the communion of the Church in order to make a new future possible.
**


#11

Confession is no less a sacrament than Baptism. But what I meant was that confession will restore your link to God, but the link is… oh geez… here:

As Hegesippus said:

The sacrament of reconciliation does not necessarily wipe away the temporal punishment that comes with sin. But baptism does.

That’s what I meant. Confession is like a re-baptism but not exactly. You can still get to God but you’ve got a big knot to climb over.

StCsDavid - can venial sins, when added up with unrepentence, still destroy your salvation? I’m not sure. You brought up a good point.

The forgiveness is complete - the link to God is complete - but you’re still going to suffer from it.

blackfish152 - I don’t know if this is going to help any but I thought I’d throw it out there. I don’t know where I heard this, but I did hear it somewhere. … God is not a God of second chances; he is a God of new beginnings. Adam never got the garden back. And then the guy expanded on it and I can’t remember where he went with it.


#12

[quote=cardenio]*Baptism is God tossing a rope down and kind of tying you on; Confirmation is you reaching out and grabbing the rope.

Ropes are made of a bunch of different fibers; venial sins are cutting fibers.

Mortal sins are slicing through the entire rope, cutting you off from God.

Confession is you and God working together at tying a knot in the rope, basically having the same effect as Baptism, but not as perfect as Baptism.*

Does this analogy hold? Because I really really like it.
[/quote]

No since Baptism isn’t only for washing sin away it makes a mark on your soul claiming you for God. Confession (to my knowledge) leaves no imprint but takes sin away and gives an increase of Sanctifying Grace.

Analogies are cool, but if you can’t find a good one just explain the truth and pray to the Holy Spirit! :thumbsup:


#13

thanks for your reply,

**

blackfish152

  • I don’t know if this is going to help any but I thought I’d throw it out there. I don’t know where I heard this, but I did hear it somewhere. … God is not a God of second chances; he is a God of new beginnings. Adam never got the garden back. And then the guy expanded on it and I can’t remember where he went with it.
    **

Thats quite a good analogy, but I happened to read in The imitation Of Christ By Thomas A kempis,( 2nd most popular read book in world apparently)

book 3 interior converstion.chapter 30.

having recovered your breath after the storm, gather your strength again in the lightof My mercy for I am near you to restore all, not only to their former state, but even to increase them abundantly beyond measure.

perhaps after sining and being brught back in by grace and mercy of confession you start again but are better able to move on in the spititual life, to bigger and better things? ???


#14

blackfish152 - like learning from your mistakes?


#15

Mary/cardenio,

having recovered your breath after the storm, gather your strength again in the lightof My mercy for I am near you to restore all, not only to their former state, but even to increase them abundantly beyond measure.

After we sin, and realise that we would at any time prefer something to the love and fellowship we have with God-there is a profound need for sacremental confession and interior conversion. If we are living justified and progressing in interior sanctification bu the grace of God, and we sin I wondered do we loose it all.

I think we do.

but when we convert back to him after his Grace prompts us to convert our hearts back to live in his grace and mercy, then we are taken back to that level of sanctification which we previously attained-just like the prodigal son, he got back his fathers inheritance. and like the prodigal son, we are much the wiser, and we will hopefully not make the same mistake twice. But even if we do our father will still take us back.

so in short-yes learning from your mistakes!

m.


closed #16

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