confused about something


#1

I accompanied my partner to a “seminar” at his church (SDA) on the Prophecy Code. It surprised me in that these folks think the world is going to end next week or real soon anyway and they(the faithful SDA’ers) will be “raptured” and taken to heaven, while some of us (me, a catholic) will be left behind. It made me wonder what exactly the Catholic church’s position on the second coming is and what exactly happens to us when we die.Where do we go? I don’t mean to sound so ignorant, but there is so much I don’t know about my faith.I am reading lots of book, but I would appreciate your valuable insight.
Thanks,
~ Kathy ~


#2

[quote=Katie1723]I accompanied my partner to a “seminar” at his church (SDA) on the Prophecy Code. It surprised me in that these folks think the world is going to end next week or real soon anyway and they(the faithful SDA’ers) will be “raptured” and taken to heaven, while some of us (me, a catholic) will be left behind. It made me wonder what exactly the Catholic church’s position on the second coming is and what exactly happens to us when we die.Where do we go? I don’t mean to sound so ignorant, but there is so much I don’t know about my faith.I am reading lots of book, but I would appreciate your valuable insight.
Thanks,
~ Kathy ~
[/quote]

One thing to note is that their view of being “raptured” when Jesus returns, while others are “left behind” seems to imply not only a second, but also a third coming (which we know is unsupported by scripture or tradition).
At the hour of death, all people are separated from their bodies. Their spirits or souls go immediately to Jesus for a judgement, followed by a trip straight to Heaven, or the process of Purgatory, or, Heaven forbid, to Hell.


#3

It’s also worth noting that it’s equally likely that it will be the “unworthy” who are “raptured”, and the holy will be left behind. That was the case with the Flood, for instance, and the holy are supposed to “inherit the Earth”.


#4

Katie,

There is very little information given to us about the second coming. Many Protestant religions ascribe to the ideas that you have mentioned, the problem with them is that they are baseless, they are a total twisting of the scriptures.

As Catholics we don’t really give much thought to how Christ will come. We are called to always be prepared, as we will “not know the day nor the hour”.

As far as what scripture tells us, we know that Christ will come again to judge the living and the dead. The last Chapter of Revelation speaks of a new heaven and a new earth. I believe that it also says somewhere that he will return in the same way that he left, which would refer to the assention.

As Catholics we do not view the book of Revelation as profecy referring to the future, much of it has already been fullfilled. The last chapter is definitely speaking of the future.

Remember, we are Christ’s Church, and we have nothing to fear, Christ will come to receive us bodily into heaven where we will remain for all eternity. Those who love Christ wait anxiously for his second coming, we do not try to figure out that which we cannot know, and we have nothing to fear.

Try the CA tracts on Last Things. These might help. catholic.com/library/last_things.asp

I’m curious, does your partner think that you are going to hell?


#5

I feel sorry for these people.
It isn’t just the SDA’s…Jack VanImpe is on TV every week telling how many people that they aren’t ever going to die.
The rapture is just 'roun the corner!!

Well…it just ISN’T going to happen!
And if we do get saddled with tough times - and these people are let down by having to endure them…where will their faith be?

They’ve actually been taught a belief of salvation contingent upon the rapture…when the rapture doesn’t come, will they still believe?
I hope so.


#6

Another quick question…
What exactly does Prophecy Code mean?

It sounds a bit gnostic to me.


#7

[quote=Lorarose]Another quick question…
What exactly does Prophecy Code mean?

It sounds a bit gnostic to me.
[/quote]

my understanding is it is their interpretation of “end times” according to the book of Revelation. It sounds very depressing to me.


#8

[quote=e-catholic]There is very little information given to us about the second coming. Many Protestant religions ascribe to the ideas that you have mentioned, the problem with them is that they are baseless, they are a total twisting of the scriptures.
[/quote]

Prophecy is a major part of scripture and its study has commanded the attention of a veritable army of brilliant minds. Yet no consensus has appeared.

To say that belief in the rapture is “baseless” and “a twisting of the scriptures” is far from the truth. Although I have my own doubts about it, the finest Bible scholars I’ve read believe it with all their hearts.

Additionally (if this counts for anything around here), people who believe in the rapture walk the Christian walk, as a group, more devoutly than any other bunch I’ve seen.

1 Thes. 4:17 says that believers will be “caught up” to the clouds. The Vulgate said nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur. The verb rapio is equivalent to “caught up” and is the source of the English word “rapture.”

It’s a Catholic word, if not a Catholic doctrine. :slight_smile:


#9

Additionally (if this counts for anything around here), people who believe in the rapture walk the Christian walk, as a group, more devoutly than any other bunch I’ve seen.

It’s a Catholic word, if not a Catholic doctrine.

A good point for Catholics to keep in mind. The season of Advent is devoted particularly to alertness in the anticipation of the coming parousia, but it is an attitude that should be fostered year-round. The fact that the “rapture” formulation is not entirely correct doesn’t mean that we should dismiss the attitude behind it. Far from it, we should live the belief that we profess in Mass: “Christ will come again.”


#10

Additionally (if this counts for anything around here), people who believe in the rapture walk the Christian walk, as a group, more devoutly than any other bunch I’ve seen.

The devoted rapture believing group to whom you are refering, are an invisible (no pun intended) bunch to me personally. All, and I do mean all, the rapture spouting fundies I know are the most virulent anti-Catholics I’ve ever met. You may be the exception*.*

1 Thes. 4:17 says that believers will be “caught up” to the clouds. The Vulgate said nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur. The verb rapio is equivalent to “caught up” and is the source of the English word “rapture.”

It’s a Catholic word, if not a Catholic doctrine. :slight_smile:

Catholics are not ignorant. Many of us are well aware from where the word rapture came. Building an entire religion around ONE word is a topic for another thread. We are also aware that it is not derived from a “Catholic” word, it is derived from Latin.
:slight_smile:


#11

[quote=Kevan]Prophecy is a major part of scripture and its study has commanded the attention of a veritable army of brilliant minds. Yet no consensus has appeared.

To say that belief in the rapture is “baseless” and “a twisting of the scriptures” is far from the truth. Although I have my own doubts about it, the finest Bible scholars I’ve read believe it with all their hearts.

[/quote]

I don’t know what Bible scholars you’re reading but you certainly must be limiting your reading to authors who did not live before the mid-19th century. Why are “the finest Bible scholars” only those in last 150 or so years? There was a “consensus” of “brilliant minds” for the first 1800 years of Christianity and none of them believed in the rapture. This fact proves that it is a flawed theology. It’s amazing to me when people approach the Bible, outside the benefit of knowledge of the Early Church Fathers and other, later, great theologians, and yet think that they are somehow better inclined to understand a 2000 year old writing. I’ll trust the doctrinal opinions and judgements of the ECF’s over modern day “Bible scholars” any day.


#12

Bottom line, if the rapture happens, BELIEVERS will be taken up in the clouds. Since Catholics BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus Christ, what’s the worry? Up up and away we’ll go.


#13

[quote=Tmaque]I don’t know what Bible scholars you’re reading but you certainly must be limiting your reading to authors who did not live before the mid-19th century.
[/quote]

Oh, I’ve read a few more than those.

I do not judge scholars by their opinions; I judge them by their methods. By carefully watching how they do their work, one may arrive at an informed opinion as to their abilities.

Unfortunately, ability isn’t the only requirement for arriving at truth. That’s why Abelard wrote Sic et Non.


#14

The SDA’s have been saying that since 1844.

The Great DisappointmentThe Great Disappointment was an event in the early history of the of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, when Jesus failed to re-appear on the appointed day of October 22, 1844 as members of the Church expected.

Between 1831 and 1844, William Miller, a Baptist preacher, launched what he called the “great second advent awakening”, also known as the Millerite Movement. Miller preached a set of fourteen rules for the interpretation of the Bible, which spread to followers throughout the world. Based on his study of the prophecy of Daniel 8:14, Miller calculated that Jesus would return to Earth sometime between 1843 and 1844. Others within the movement calculated a specific date of October 22, 1844.

When Jesus did not appear, Miller’s followers experienced what became to be called “the Great Disappointment”. Most of the thousands of followers left the movement. A few, however, went back to their Bibles to find why they had been disappointed. They concluded that the prophecy predicted not that Jesus would return to earth in 1844, but that a special ministry in heaven would be formed on that date. From this started the modern Seventh-day Adventist Church. Miller rejected his own movement altogether.


#15

[quote=Katie1723]It made me wonder what exactly the Catholic church’s position on the second coming is …
[/quote]

You will find your questions answered in the Cathechism.Catechism of the Catholic Church

ARTICLE 7

“FROM THENCE HE WILL COME AGAIN TO JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD”

…and what exactly happens to us when we die.

See the Catechism of the Catholic Church:THE PARTICULAR JUDGMENT (1021 – 1027)

and

THE LAST JUDGMENT (1038 – 1050)


#16

Catholic apologist John Martignoni has a great free tape (or CD) on this entitled “The Rapture and the Bible”. Nominal sihpping.
biblechristiansociety.com/free_tapes.asp


#17

If the rapture happens, I’m stayin, so I can live in paradise.

If Jesus is coming in the clouds, he is not going to do a u-turn and just go back, He is coming at the end of time, bringing the New Jerusalem with Him.

Why believe in the modern version of the rapture, it was invented less than 200 years ago?! It was made up! It does help newly invented churches get people worried and alive in their faith, when people are afraid I am sure they are great Christians.

We don’t need to worry about the rapture, we need to always be ready, living good holy lives. Most people have died and will die before any rapture occurs, it is better to get your affairs in order because that is what Jesus wants.


#18

The devoted rapture believing group to whom you are refering, are an invisible (no pun intended) bunch to me personally. All, and I do mean all, the rapture spouting fundies I know are the most virulent anti-Catholics I’ve ever met. You may be the exception.

Based on my personal experience, I will second this observation.
I’ll include some more observations…
The “salvation is based on belief in the rapture” crowd I am familiar with are not only anti-catholic - they are also anti suffering.
They don’t belief there is any worth in suffering.
This is the “prosperity” crowd in our community.
They believe if they play it right - then God will make them prosperous - and spare them from suffering.

I think this is a recipe for disaster.


#19

[quote=carol marie]Bottom line, if the rapture happens, BELIEVERS will be taken up in the clouds. Since Catholics BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus Christ, what’s the worry? Up up and away we’ll go.
[/quote]

Yes, either way Jesus will be coming for us, IF the rapture is during our lifetime, we will be snatched up as the fundies like to say. OR more than likely we will meet Jesus at the time of our own deaths.

Why born againers are so anti-Catholic is beyond me. It is so unChrist-like to condemn other fellow Christ following believers.

It’s like, IF you do not say the magic words exactly the same way as they do, then you’re toast.

Yes, I believe Jesus is my personal savior. Yes, I was born again in Baptism. etc etc…but no !!! you did not say “I accept Jesus …” or was it you did not say “mother may I” or was it, you did not say “Simon says”… it is so childish and insane.

Everyone who has ever predicted a particular time or date has been wrong. It always amusing to watch them scramble for a new date and time. No one knows, only God knows. It may happen tomorrow, or it may happen many thousands of years from now.

The only thing we know for sure is, we will meet Christ, maybe tomorrow, but certainly on the day we die. I’m ready for either.

WC


#20

I just thought I would say that SDAs do NOT believe in the rapture. I get the SDA network on tv and have watched several programs where they totally debunk that teaching.


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