Congressional report: Snowden in 'contact with Russian intelligence'


#1

This should put an end to the nonsense that Edward Snowden is some kind of hero.

"Edward Snowden has been in contact with Russian intelligence officials since arriving in Russia in 2013, according to a new report from Congress.

“Since Snowden’s arrival in Moscow, he has had, and continues to have, contact with Russian intelligence services,” the 33-page report, issued Thursday by the bipartisan House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, said."

cnn.com/2016/12/22/politics/edward-snowden-russia-intelligence/index.html


#2

I doubt that he had much choice in the matter. Russian Intelligence would have been all over him as soon as he stepped off the plane.


#3

He had complete choice in the matter. He freely chose to steal classified data; he freely chose to leak said data; he freely chose to flee the U.S.: he freely chose to accept sanctuary in Russia. And for what? What is his great prize for making a free decision and having to abandon his country, family and friends? He was the master of his own fate. Good God, did he make some terrible decisions.


#4

Hopefully a home population which has a greater sense of governmental activities. :slight_smile:
A public cannot make informed decisions without being informed. :thumbsup:


#5

This doesn’t surprise me. I am sure they want to keep an eye on him considering what
he was able to do.


#6

If a Russian whitsleblower ended up in Washington D.C., don’t you think that “American Intelligence” would have been “in contact” with said whitsleblower?

Your feelings towards Snowden are irrelevant. The facts speak for themselves. Snowden blew the whistle on an global, unconstitutional American government spying program that records intimate, private communications of average, law-abiding Americans and people worldwide for indefinite storage, linking and retrieval. And you’re still mad at Snowden??

Don’t you understand that this type of activity that the American (and other) government(s) are doing, if not stopped or sufficiently limited, is the beginning of the end of a free “republic” and “democracy”?

I suggest you direct your outrage to the American government which has violated our most high laws and rights. Snowden tried to go someplace else. He was blocked by the U.S. Others blew the whistle before him and were met with violence and incarceration. Yes, he acted in self-preservation by escaping. It’s not a crime nor a sin, but a duty to try to preserve your life and freedom, so long as you don’t do evil to do so.

Many people have escaped certain death and repression throughout history. When its a big enough group we call them exiled groups, like the Jews. Snowden is in exile. Yes, his decisions got him to where he is. But he appears to have done it for good of the American people. Now, I can’t know this for sure. Perhaps he did it because he hates the U.S. or just wanted to live exiled in Moscow for some reason. Maybe he’s really a “Russian Spy”. But the facts don’t bear this out and as we can’t read hearts, we should be charitable.

Taking those things into consideration, yes, I would say that Snowden fits the bill as a “hero”. If you don’t want to view him that way, that’s fine. But at least admit that he did the American people and the world a service, whatever his motivations.


#7

:thumbsup:


#8

Is it not the perpetual mantra of so many on this site that we are never allowed to do evil so that good may come of it? You say that “the facts speak for themselves.” I agree. Snowden broke the law. His motivations are irrelevant. Not only did he break the law, he is also cooperating with members of a foreign government in detailing how our government functions. If he was truly a man of principle, he would face the consequences of his actions. Yet, we live in an age where people want to do whatever they feel is “right,” regardless as to the legitimacy of their actions, and be safeguarded against any repercussions that is their due. It is a truly bizarre thing that when we complain about relativism in the Church we are more than willing to accept it in politics.


#9

I see, so you accept the concept that the ends justifies the means. Do you also advocate that people who commit crimes that you feel aren’t serious enough or were done for the “right” reason should be free arrest, trial, conviction and punishment? Do you allow the choice of abortion when a woman decides that she doesn’t want or just isn’t ready for a child because she just doesn’t “feel” that the time is right? If not, why? You are certainly more than willing to give Snowden a pass for his moral relativism. Does not the shoe fit on the other foot?


#10

Yeah, and that’s really the point, isn’t it?

I find it mind boggling that on a site where it is constantly trotted out about free will, choice and the repercussions due to sin that so many are willing to allow someone to freely violate the rules and laws of a supposed “civilized” society without consequence. If there were reports of a priest who told his congregation to not worry about confession, regardless as to their sins, that everyone is free and welcome to come to communion, then there would be a chorus of people stating that he should be removed from his position immediately. Yet, many seem to be content with people knowingly and willingly violating the law and think that they should be free from punishment. The structure of civil law is (supposed to be) the same as divine law. It is called crime and punishment.


#11

What does contact with mean? How would the US know? The only way the US would know is if they themselves had spies. These spies would be engaged in immoral or illegal activity themselves. If the spy were a Russian then they would be ever as much a traitor as Snowden, following the claim that Snowden is. I find the whole world of espionage grossly immoral and unnecessary for any real good. Snowden is a hero for revealing the treachery of our own government.


#12

The next press release from ‘The dept. of the bleeding obvious’ will contains such great surprises as the Sun been a star, water been necessary for continued life and ll boy bands every anywhere been abysmal. Prepare to smack yourself on the head and exclaim, “Eureka!” right now.


#13

Do you prefer speculation to documented proof? Most intelligent people wait for documented facts before pronouncing upon a subject, something that seems to be a strange or foreign concept to many today.


#14

Ah yes, when all fails good old ad hominem. Of course Snowden has been in contact with the Russian intelligence services, imagining otherwise would be bizarre giving how he arrived in Russia and why.


#15

I can understand why he wouldn’t want to “face the consequences” which would likely be life or decades in prison, perhaps in solitary confinement. We already know what has happened to Chelsea Manning.


#16

Oh yeah, enter the* ad hominem*. :rolleyes:

It is not an ad hominem to say that intelligent people think before they act.

Also, imagining doesn’t make something so.


#17

And wasn’t the choice his to make? He doesn’t want to face the consequences because he doesn’t want to have to be responsible for his actions. I find it incredible that on a forum where most subscribe to the Christian faith that the idea of just punishment for one’s freely chosen actions is a bizarre concept. Bradley Manning is another perfect example of one being held accountable for his actions. Or does the rule of law, much like the law of God in today’s world, not mean much anymore?


#18

The rule of law is relative to how it’s applied and who it’s applied to. Was the NSA performing illegal activities? Who was held accountable?

Just because something is a law doesn’t mean its right or moral.


#19

Ah, so the ends justifies the means. :thumbsup:

No, but it also doesn’t give one free reign to simply disregard it, either.


#20

The law was already broken. And it was broken by the U.S. government, which needs to be held accountable for its actions- but governments rarely are. Snowden blew the whistle on the law breaking, providing detailed PROOF of the NSA’s illegal activities, without which he would have been dismissed as a tin-foil-hat-crank. How can keeping the law be a duty when it merely serves to cover up the governing body’s violation of law?

You misunderstand what intrinsic evil is. It is not intrinsically evil to break man’s law. Otherwise, the apostles often committed intrinsic evils in doing God’s work. I can only imagine your take on Paul- “He broke the law! His motivations are irrelevant!”

We should normally follow the law, of course. But sometimes we must break with man’s law to obey a higher law. I hope the speed limit doesn’t stop you from rushing an injured person to the hospital.

If the NSA program where focused solely on surveillance of foreign governments (as it has always done), I do not believe Snowden would have revealed it and if so, then we would be having a totally different conversation about a totally different situation in which we would probably agree. But it involved American citizens and regular people throughout the world who also have a right to privacy from the U.S. government, even if not covered under the Constitution.

This is the theme of the Crito, written by Plato which justifies Socrates’ acceptance of his execution instead of escaping into exile. I profoundly disagree with this conclusion. If Snowden had done this in North Korea, would you be singing the same tune? No? Why? Because he would be treated unjustly for his “crime”? Yet he would have faced severely unjust consequences in the U.S. as well.

No, I think we have a right and duty for self-preservation, all things being equal. I don’t condemn people who escape unjust “punishment” at the hands of oppressors because they have broken unjust laws.

Regardless, I do think he is facing negative consequences for his actions, even if he isn’t being stripped of his clothes, sentenced to solitary confinement and decades of incarceration or being punished for attempted suicide like Bradley Manning. He isn’t even facing fictitious charges like Julian Assange.

But he is in exile in a strange land with a strange language without his family and friends, never knowing when he can return or what his fate will be. He is also at the mercy of a government which isn’t too great either. This, evidence shows, he chose out of lack of options, not out of careful planning and preference.

Tell that to the NSA. They are undermining not only the laws in the U.S., but the very heart of a democratic republic. But people feel that its “right” because of “terrorism” and other totalitarian excuses. People in Washington, who have SWORN allegiance to the Constitution and a duty to the people of the U.S. felt it was okay to allow the government to fundamentally violate the law and its people and to keep it secret. It is THOSE PEOPLE who kept quiet and selectively followed “the law” who are guilty and should be tried for treason.

How many people were aware of this and said nothing because it was dangerous to their careers and health? And yet the man who listens to his conscience and puts his county before himself is the one who is seen as a traitor. Incredible!


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