consecration to mary?


#1

i was reading a website the other day which warned against consecrations and praying directly to saints. it did make sense the way he presented his argument. i was just wondering if its true though. is it dangerous to pray directly to saints?


#2

I was CONSECRATED once. But I took some bran flakes and it fixed me right up!:smiley:


#3

We don't pray them as they are gods but someone that managed to make choices, sacrifices and earned their way to go to Heaven, to pray for us and guide us. When you post a prayer here, you do the same thing, you are asking others to join your prayer to pray for you or your cause.

Mother Mary is the bridge to Heaven and in no ways she is to take the role of God but as a very carrying mother that want to guide us to her son and protect us from evil. She always remind us in her apparition to follow her son teachings, to read the bible to practice the sacrament, etc.... Pope Jean Paul II has wrote many great things about her and why it is so important to pray her.

Catholic faith follows the teaching of Jesus that was passed on through the apostles and the pope is guided with the Holy Spirit.

Blessings and love to you!


#4

The issue of Catholics praying to saints is one that is full of confusion. It is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church that Catholics do not pray TO saints or Mary, but rather that Catholics can ask saints or Mary to pray FOR them. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that asking saints for their prayers is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. However, the practice of many Catholics diverges from official Roman Catholic teaching. Many Catholics do in fact pray directly to saints and/or Mary, asking them for help – instead of asking the saints and/or Mary to intercede with God for help. Whatever the case, whether a saint or Mary is being prayed to, or asked to pray, neither practice has any biblical basis.

The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God. The Bible nowhere encourages, or even mentions, believers asking individuals in heaven for their prayers. Why, then, do many Catholics pray to Mary and/or the saints, or request their prayers? Catholics view Mary and the saints as "intercessors" before God. They believe that a saint, who is glorified in Heaven, has more "direct access" to God than we do. Therefore, if a saint delivers a prayer to God, it is more effective than us praying to God directly. This concept is blatantly unbiblical. Hebrews 4:16 tells us that we, believers here on earth, can "approach the throne of grace with confidence."

First Timothy 2:5 declares, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." There is no one else that can mediate with God for us. If Jesus is the ONLY mediator, that indicates Mary and the saints cannot be mediators. They cannot mediate our prayer requests to God. Further, the Bible tells us that Jesus Christ Himself is interceding for us before the Father: "Therefore He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them" (Hebrews 7:25). With Jesus Himself interceding for us, why would we need Mary or the saints to intercede for us? Whom would God listen to more closely than His Son? Romans 8:26-27 describes the Holy Spirit interceding for us. With the 2nd and 3rd members of the Trinity already interceding for us before the Father in heaven, what possible need could there be to have Mary or the saints interceding for us?

Catholics argue that praying to Mary and the saints is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. Let us examine that claim. (1) The Apostle Paul asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians 6:19. Many Scriptures describe believers praying for one another (2 Corinthians 1:11; Ephesians 1:16; Philippians 1:19; 2 Timothy 1:3). The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for him. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth. (2) The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient. Even glorified in heaven, they are still finite beings with limitations. How could they possibly hear the prayers of millions of people? Whenever the Bible mentions praying to or speaking with the dead, it is in the context of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy, and divination—activities the Bible strongly condemns (Leviticus 20:27; Deuteronomy 18:10-13). In the one instance when a "saint" is spoken to, Samuel in 1 Samuel 28:7-19, Samuel is not exactly happy to be disturbed. It is clear that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for us. One has a strong biblical basis; the other has no biblical basis whatsoever.

God does not answer prayers based on who is praying. God answers prayers based on whether they are asked according to His will (1 John 5:14-15). There is absolutely no basis or need to pray to anyone other than God alone. There is no basis for asking those who are in heaven to pray for us. Only God can hear our prayers. Only God can answer our prayers. No one in heaven has any greater access to God's throne than we do through prayer (Hebrews 4:16).


#5

[quote="rellanor, post:4, topic:309400"]
The issue of Catholics praying to saints is one that is full of confusion. It is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church that Catholics do not pray TO saints or Mary, but rather that Catholics can ask saints or Mary to pray FOR them. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that asking saints for their prayers is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. However, the practice of many Catholics diverges from official Roman Catholic teaching. Many Catholics do in fact pray directly to saints and/or Mary, asking them for help – instead of asking the saints and/or Mary to intercede with God for help. Whatever the case, whether a saint or Mary is being prayed to, or asked to pray, neither practice has any biblical basis.

The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God. The Bible nowhere encourages, or even mentions, believers asking individuals in heaven for their prayers. Why, then, do many Catholics pray to Mary and/or the saints, or request their prayers? Catholics view Mary and the saints as "intercessors" before God. They believe that a saint, who is glorified in Heaven, has more "direct access" to God than we do. Therefore, if a saint delivers a prayer to God, it is more effective than us praying to God directly. This concept is blatantly unbiblical. Hebrews 4:16 tells us that we, believers here on earth, can "approach the throne of grace with confidence."

First Timothy 2:5 declares, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." There is no one else that can mediate with God for us. If Jesus is the ONLY mediator, that indicates Mary and the saints cannot be mediators. They cannot mediate our prayer requests to God. Further, the Bible tells us that Jesus Christ Himself is interceding for us before the Father: "Therefore He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them" (Hebrews 7:25). With Jesus Himself interceding for us, why would we need Mary or the saints to intercede for us? Whom would God listen to more closely than His Son? Romans 8:26-27 describes the Holy Spirit interceding for us. With the 2nd and 3rd members of the Trinity already interceding for us before the Father in heaven, what possible need could there be to have Mary or the saints interceding for us?

Catholics argue that praying to Mary and the saints is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. Let us examine that claim. (1) The Apostle Paul asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians 6:19. Many Scriptures describe believers praying for one another (2 Corinthians 1:11; Ephesians 1:16; Philippians 1:19; 2 Timothy 1:3). The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for him. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth. (2) The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient. Even glorified in heaven, they are still finite beings with limitations. How could they possibly hear the prayers of millions of people? Whenever the Bible mentions praying to or speaking with the dead, it is in the context of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy, and divination—activities the Bible strongly condemns (Leviticus 20:27; Deuteronomy 18:10-13). In the one instance when a "saint" is spoken to, Samuel in 1 Samuel 28:7-19, Samuel is not exactly happy to be disturbed. It is clear that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for us. One has a strong biblical basis; the other has no biblical basis whatsoever.

God does not answer prayers based on who is praying. God answers prayers based on whether they are asked according to His will (1 John 5:14-15). There is absolutely no basis or need to pray to anyone other than God alone. There is no basis for asking those who are in heaven to pray for us. Only God can hear our prayers. Only God can answer our prayers. No one in heaven has any greater access to God's throne than we do through prayer (Hebrews 4:16).

[/quote]

No one prays to dead saints, because those in heaven are more alive than we are. The Lord is God of the living, not of the dead. The fervent prayer of a righteous man is very powerful (Jas 5:16). Those in heaven are surely righteous, since nothing unclean can enter heaven (Rv 21:27). Those in heaven are part of the Mystical Body of Christ and have not been separated from us by death, but surround us as a great cloud of witnesses (Heb 12:1). They stand before the throne of God and offer our prayers to him (Rv 5:8) and cheer us on as we run the good race. Intercession among members of the body of Christ is pleasing to God (1 Tm 2:1-4) and even commanded by him (Jn 15:17). Those in heaven have a perfected love, so how could they not intercede for us? Christ is the vine, and we are the branches; if we are connected to him, we are inseparably bound together as well. Can the eye say to the hand, "I need you not"? Neither are we to say we don’t need the prayers of our brothers and sisters (alive here or in heaven), because salvation is a family affair.


#6

youtu.be/V6OwlfNwc9A
watch this video. It should help you.


#7

Thanks for the link. I,m a saint and so are you beleivers are referred to as saints in the bible. Now listen to the video again-- it takes on a whole different meaning.


#8

[quote="someperson555, post:1, topic:309400"]
i was reading a website the other day which warned against consecrations and praying directly to saints. it did make sense the way he presented his argument. i was just wondering if its true though. is it dangerous to pray directly to saints?

[/quote]

I'd do one of two things,

first look at the below link:

scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc2.htm (if anyone can direct me to a better online version i'm all ears:))

secondly read the Catechism of the Catholic Church which says this and can be found here (you can find many versions but I like this whilst i'm at my computer as well as a hardcopy):

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm#

2683 The witnesses who have preceded us into the kingdom,41 especially those whom the Church recognizes as saints, share in the living tradition of prayer by the example of their lives, the transmission of their writings, and their prayer today. They contemplate God, praise him and constantly care for those whom they have left on earth. When they entered into the joy of their Master, they were "put in charge of many things."42 Their intercession is their most exalted service to God's plan. We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world.

2684 In the communion of saints, many and varied spiritualities have been developed throughout the history of the churches. the personal charism of some witnesses to God's love for men has been handed on, like "the spirit" of Elijah to Elisha and John the Baptist, so that their followers may have a share in this spirit.43 A distinct spirituality can also arise at the point of convergence of liturgical and theological currents, bearing witness to the integration of the faith into a particular human environment and its history. the different schools of Christian spirituality share in the living tradition of prayer and are essential guides for the faithful. In their rich diversity they are refractions of the one pure light of the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit is truly the dwelling of the saints and the saints are for the Spirit a place where he dwells as in his own home since they offer themselves as a dwelling place for God and are called his temple.


Think on either one of the above. Personally it was a bugbear of mine before i was accepted into the church but once looking over a Catechism and talking to Catholic friends I realised that we are asking for their help and not praying to them over God (like I once thought). I love the benefit of Church Traditions! Seemed like only a small difference to me at the time but seems like such a gulf now between where I was and where I am.

:D God Bless


#9

It depends on how it's phrased:

It is incorrect to pray directly to a saint in this way: "Oh, Saint Jude, please help me, O hopeless case and lost cause, according to thy personal power."

It is correct to pray directly to a saint in this way: "Oh, saint Jude, please intercede for me with God, please pray for me, O hopeless case and lost cause, according to thy merits and the power of God."

One should not pray to a saint as one would pray to God. Saints have power and influence only insofar as God gives them power and influence, and only insofar as the sovereign God allows them to exercise it. One should pray to a saint to ask for their prayers to God, for their merits, for them to intercede and petition God on your behalf - and, yes, you must pray to the saint directly to ask them to help you indirectly (through their prayers and intercession).

A saint can not help you in any way on his own. A saint can help you because he is holy, and has accrued great merits, and can intercede on the behalf of his devotees to the Most Holy Trinity, and can pray on their behalf. The prayer of a righteous and pious man is of great value, and the saints are the most pious and righteous of us all - so righteous and poor in spirit that they have been blessed with the Vision of God.

You can view this by analogy with living members of the body of Christ: would you ask a holy relative or priest to pray for you? Yes, it is good and correct. Would you ask a holy priest or relative to answer your prayers out of their own power? No, it is blasphemous and idolatrous.

What is said above applies also, although not as strongly, to the Blessed Virgin. Even she, the greatest of all created beings, higher even than the angels, the conduit through which salvation entered the world, can not give you anything of herself, as she is still just a creature, even if an exalted - the most exalted - one. She can only give what her Son wants her to, as her Son can work through her.


#10

[quote="Khalid, post:9, topic:309400"]
What is said above applies also, although not as strongly, to the Blessed Virgin. Even she, the greatest of all created beings, higher even than the angels, the conduit through which salvation entered the world, can not give you anything of herself, as she is still just a creature, even if an exalted - the most exalted - one. She can only give what her Son wants her to, as her Son can work through her.

[/quote]

This made me wonder; I've often prayed short aspirations, such as "Help me, O Mother Mary, lead me to my salvation, your Son" or "O Mary, hold me in your mantle, help me, lead me to the Lord", etc. As well, I've often asked particular saints to help me and others (as in, praying for me with the power that God gave them, their intercession) for particular causes that relate to them. Have I been praying improperly?


#11

A perfect example of how to ask the saints and the Blessed Mother to intercede can be found in the words of the Hail Mary.


#12

[quote="mommy_k, post:11, topic:309400"]
A perfect example of how to ask the saints and the Blessed Mother to intercede can be found in the words of the Hail Mary.

[/quote]

The angel of the Lord greeted Mary with the words, "Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with you." [Luke 1:28]. In the Magnificat, she proclaims "from now on all ages will call me blessed. " [Luke 1: 48].
After Jesus is found in the temple, He returned with Mary and Joseph and remained obedient to them. We find the first example of Mary's intercession in Christ's first miracle during the wedding at Cana when Mary says, "Do whatever He says." Mary always points to her Son.
Mary plays a vital role in salvation history through her fiat, her yes God.

As others have already stated, we do not pray to the Saints as if they were gods. That is idolatry. We do, however, recognize that they continue to live. Jesus speaks to this when He talks of God as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the present, not the past tense. "God is a God of the Living, not the dead."


#13

[quote="Immacolata, post:10, topic:309400"]
This made me wonder; I've often prayed short aspirations, such as "Help me, O Mother Mary, lead me to my salvation, your Son" or "O Mary, hold me in your mantle, help me, lead me to the Lord", etc. As well, I've often asked particular saints to help me and others (as in, praying for me with the power that God gave them, their intercession) for particular causes that relate to them. Have I been praying improperly?

[/quote]

No way! We pray TO our Blessed and Most Chaste Mother that she would help us directly. Don't let anyone sway you from giving the Blessed Virgin Mary the respect/veneration she is due (This is called hyperdulia. Latria is what we give to God alone, and dulia to all of the other Saints in heaven). Those short ejaculations that you listed are perfect!

The Catholics who try and justify praying TO Saints (not saints; but Saints with a capital S) by explaining to protestants that we only ask that the Saints would pray FOR us are wrong.....very very very wrong in every way. We, as Roman Catholics, most definitely pray TO each and every Saint imaginable and in many cases ask them to do things for us beyond praying to God for us.

Look at the Angele Dei, prayer to Saint Michael, Prayer to Saint Gerard, Salve Regina, and Memorare for prime examples. These prayers all ask for the Saints help far beyond just asking them to pray for us. They are living members of the Body of Christ, and as such, can perform actions to help us.

Don't let the protestant notion that prayer is only for God. Afterall, anyone who has asked someone for any kind of favor has prayed to them. To pray literally just means to ask.

So i pray you, please continue to ask the Blessed Virgin for her help every day. I am certain that our Lord Jesus Christ, when he was a child, certainly asked his mother for help. Are you better than our Lord?

God Bless you.


#14

There's nothing wrong with asking Mary and the Saints to pray for you. Don't read the anti Catholic stuff , you'll only end up questioning Carholicism if you're not strong in the faith entirely. Those anti Catholic sites are aimed at bringing down Catholics who are not firm in their faith. So spend your time building your faith not investigating what Protestants say we should do and listening.


#15

[quote="Christine85, post:14, topic:309400"]
There's nothing wrong with asking Mary and the Saints to pray for you. Don't read the anti Catholic stuff , you'll only end up questioning Carholicism if you're not strong in the faith entirely. Those anti Catholic sites are aimed at bringing down Catholics who are not firm in their faith. So spend your time building your faith not investigating what Protestants say we should do and listening.

[/quote]

If you are not strong in your faith there are Protestants and others out there that will pull a fast one on you and you will wind up losing your faith. I speak from experience.


#16

Thank you very much for your response. I’ve always asked the Blessed Mother to help me, and I plan to continue to do so I’ve reached the end of my days. I’ve always thought we indeed pray to Saints, albeit not in the same fashion as the Lord and the Most Holy Trinity (because in prayers to the Lord, there is worship; in prayers to the Saints, there is veneration and reverence) and that specific prayers, such as the ones you listed, showed that we are not simply asking for them to pray to us, but rather to help us, in many fashions, reach our salvation with the Lord.

Thank you again for response. :slight_smile:

Thank you as well. I’d consider myself grounded enough in my faith not to be swayed by anti-Catholic propaganda, and I often pay no mind to anti-Catholic sites (along with other sites of their ilk). But I agree with you, people should build their faith, make it strong, instead of questioning, and later abandoning, it because of propaganda.


#17

Some protestants seem to lack an understanding of the Communion of Saints and fail to recognize that we are all part of one body.

Asking a saint or angel for help is like asking my arm to help my hand reach.


#18

[quote="Immacolata, post:10, topic:309400"]
This made me wonder; I've often prayed short aspirations, such as "Help me, O Mother Mary, lead me to my salvation, your Son" or "O Mary, hold me in your mantle, help me, lead me to the Lord", etc. As well, I've often asked particular saints to help me and others (as in, praying for me with the power that God gave them, their intercession) for particular causes that relate to them. Have I been praying improperly?

[/quote]

You're asking for Christ in the end - nothing of Mary's own power, any more than her giving birth to God was within her own power; she merely consented (but what a glorious consent it was!). I believe several saints, and John Paul II, have said, "The surest way to Christ is through Mary".

No, those are proper prayers - you're not asking Mary to do something out of her own power, but to receive her Son through her.


#19

[quote="KLJM12, post:13, topic:309400"]
No way! We pray TO our Blessed and Most Chaste Mother that she would help us directly. Don't let anyone sway you from giving the Blessed Virgin Mary the respect/veneration she is due (This is called hyperdulia. Latria is what we give to God alone, and dulia to all of the other Saints in heaven). Those short ejaculations that you listed are perfect!

The Catholics who try and justify praying TO Saints (not saints; but Saints with a capital S) by explaining to protestants that we only ask that the Saints would pray FOR us are wrong.....very very very wrong in every way. We, as Roman Catholics, most definitely pray TO each and every Saint imaginable and in many cases ask them to do things for us beyond praying to God for us.

Look at the Angele Dei, prayer to Saint Michael, Prayer to Saint Gerard, Salve Regina, and Memorare for prime examples. These prayers all ask for the Saints help far beyond just asking them to pray for us. They are living members of the Body of Christ, and as such, can perform actions to help us.

Don't let the protestant notion that prayer is only for God. Afterall, anyone who has asked someone for any kind of favor has prayed to them. To pray literally just means to ask.

So i pray you, please continue to ask the Blessed Virgin for her help every day. I am certain that our Lord Jesus Christ, when he was a child, certainly asked his mother for help. Are you better than our Lord?

God Bless you.

[/quote]

Saint Michael is a heavenly being - but still all his power comes from God. To pray to a saint, or an angel, as if he had the power to do anything apart from God, his creator, is idolatry - it passes out of dulia, or even extreme dulia (hyperdulia) and in to latreia (adoration). If a Saint "answers" a prayer, God has answered their prayers to answer your prayer - they can not answer it directly, any more than a living man can cause it to rain, or eclipse, or the earth to shake, or to walk on water, through his will - God can cause a man to perform miracles; but the man does not perform them, God performs them through him.

Christ was the only man who ever lived who could do miracles out of his own will - because he had a divine will - and who could rightfully be adored, because he was not man - more specifically, he was and is fully God and fully man.

Prayer can be addressed to anyone, but only God can answer it; the Saints know that better than most, as they pray to God on our behalf unceasingly, knowing they can do nothing except through him than strengtheneth them.


#20

[quote="Khalid, post:19, topic:309400"]
Saint Michael is a heavenly being - but still all his power comes from God. To pray to a saint, or an angel, as if he had the power to do anything apart from God, his creator, is idolatry - it passes out of dulia, or even extreme dulia (hyperdulia) and in to latreia (adoration). If a Saint "answers" a prayer, God has answered their prayers to answer your prayer - they can not answer it directly, any more than a living man can cause it to rain, or eclipse, or the earth to shake, or to walk on water, through his will - God can cause a man to perform miracles; but the man does not perform them, God performs them through him.

Christ was the only man who ever lived who could do miracles out of his own will - because he had a divine will - and who could rightfully be adored, because he was not man - more specifically, he was and is fully God and fully man.

Prayer can be addressed to anyone, but only God can answer it; the Saints know that better than most, as they pray to God on our behalf unceasingly, knowing they can do nothing except through him than strengtheneth them.

[/quote]

I would have to disagree with position completely. It seems as though you misunderstand the three levels of reverence. Dulia, hyperdulia, and latria have nothing to do with what you think a Saint, celestial being, or God can physically or spiritually do. They refer to the level of reverence that one shows to the aforementioned entities. So thinking that Saint Michael can actually, physically destroy a demon who is near you is perfectly acceptable and in no way idolatrous.

God has given the Saints in heaven power to help us as members of the Body of Christ. Obviously that comes from God and if He willed that they not help, then they would of course be unable to intervene. But just as God allows you to wake up each and every morning, so does he permit the other living members of His One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church to help us far beyond just praying for us.


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