Continuation of Thread on Clapping at Mass


#1

Please read from beginning to end. The only words which are my own (besides these) are the bolded words at the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrDavid96 View Post
Yes, I agree that it is quite natural for people to assume that what is published on the USCCB website is the approved ritual of the Church--I said as much in my very first response to you.

But still, you keep saying that "the bishops approved this" and I'm simply pointing-out to you that that statment is not true--it's not a true fact, but it is what you were led to believe. The bishops did not approve it--they can only suggest changes, which must ultimately be approved by Rome. That means that if there was a vote by the bishops, such a vote would have to have been submitted to Rome for approval, and this obviously did not happen. Someone (and I don't know who, but I do know it was not "the bishops") took the text and altered it. I don't know who that someone was, but I know that it was not the Conference of Bishops because if that happened, the Book of Blessings would have to be re-printed (in part or in whole)--since it alters the text which Rome already approved.

The text doesn't have the weight of authority of the USCCB--even though it might be presented in that way by whoever composed the webpage. Is this misleading? In my opinion, absolutely yes.

I don't think you're being contentious here--I do think you're being misled, and that's what I'm trying to address.

Let me give an example. Let's say that I print in my parish bulletin that the USCCB guidelines for Communion say that from now on, Communion in the hand is forbidden. People might read that and easily come to the conclusion that it can't be done anymore. But the fact that it's printed in the bulletin doesn't mean that the bishops have actually done this. No matter how many people read the bulletin and say "the bishops say we can't do it", that still doesn't change the objective fact that the bishops never actually voted on this. That's precisely what we see happening with this webpage.

*So then would it be of grave matter to clap during Mass when everyone else is clapping or to not bring this up to the priest of my parish and or the Bishop of my diocese? *


#2

No, it is not a grave matter to clap during Mass. The Catechism and the Church has no formal stance on clapping during Mass. It's more of a respect issue as the Mass is a solemn occasion. When someone is baptized or a couple renew their vows it's okay to clap for them. If the Father gives a great homily or when someone says something cool during the announcements it's probably not best to clap. Personally if I feel it's not an appropriate time to clap I wont.


#3

While clapping at Mass may not be a grave matter it’s vulgar.

From there it’s a series of short, all well intentioned, steps to the shouting out of uncivilized, vapid, successive ‘amens’ in order to bring attention to oneself. Then comes chanting and dancing.

Well I’m not with them.


#4

[quote="Carolus_Martell, post:3, topic:316510"]
While clapping at Mass may not be a grave matter it's vulgar.

From there it's a series of short, all well intentioned, steps to the shouting out of uncivilized, vapid, successive 'amens' in order to bring attention to oneself. Then comes chanting and dancing.

Well I'm not with them.

[/quote]

I totally agree!
Just last weekend, one of our elders at the parish was complaining about the same,(the clapping). She says "we are bent", Mass is Mass, and not some kind of show.
I do not know about where you are, but here it is next to madness. Back at school, we have this student who claps almost when he feels like during Mass. It is not just clapping with his hands infront of him, but hands high in the air above his head and some times I wonder what is going on; cause over the past months, he has managed to get company.
I have never asked if it is allowed/right, but think our priest just tolerates it.
When I was little, I remember the congregation standing and kneeling at the same time; but these days some people never want to get up when they kneel. Because the celebrant does not insist that we get up, some people get confused and just follow.
I also say am not following the bandwagon.


#5

[quote="Carolus_Martell, post:3, topic:316510"]
While clapping at Mass may not be a grave matter it's vulgar.

From there it's a series of short, all well intentioned, steps to the shouting out of uncivilized, vapid, successive 'amens' in order to bring attention to oneself. Then comes chanting and dancing.

Well I'm not with them.

[/quote]

My advice to you would be to pull up some videos of PP. JPII's funeral.


#6

My understanding was that clapping was not to be called for by those leading the congregation (priest, music minister, lectors, etc.) but if the clapping was spontaneous, it was not forbidden.

There are very few instructions as to what is allowed and disallowed as far as the congregation. Most instructions are for those leading.


#7

[quote="ChibiViolet, post:1, topic:316510"]

*So then would it be of grave matter to clap during Mass when everyone else is clapping or to not bring this up to the priest of my parish and or the Bishop of my diocese? *

[/quote]

Of course not. You are not in charge of the Mass. :confused:

Everyone will have an opinion, but it is not a matter of sin of illicit action. Clap if you want or don't. Complain if that is your thing, or not.


#8

[quote="mburn16, post:5, topic:316510"]
My advice to you would be to pull up some videos of PP. JPII's funeral.

[/quote]

Or Pope Benedict's final public Mass on Ash Wednesday.


#9

OF COURSE I’m not in charge of the Mass! Whatever made you think I thought that, you silly goose?:wink:

FYI, I am NOT about complaining, but UNDERSTANDING and WISDOM.:slight_smile:


#10

[quote="ChibiViolet, post:9, topic:316510"]
OF COURSE I'm not in charge of the Mass! Whatever made you think I thought that, you silly goose?;)

[/quote]

I am sorry. I didn't mean that you thought you were, but rather that because you are not in charge of the Mass, the idea of sin for anything about the Mass can't be considered.


#11

It is not a sin or a grave matter. It's a bit disruptive to the effort to cultivate the sense of the sacred. Consider romance. There's a period of silence and tenderness, where the couples adore one another. Imagine someone barging in on their moment with noise. A sin? No. Disruptive? Yes. He killed their moment, so to speak.


#12

a relative’s wedding was actually held during the regular weekend mass, due to the shortage of priests (and my relative actually provided the priest, too!). There were some non-catholics in the wedding party who did some whooping immediately after the Mass was ended – in bad taste, to say the least. Couldn’t they have waited until they were outside the church?


#13

[quote="sirach2v4, post:12, topic:316510"]
a relative's wedding was actually held during the regular weekend mass, due to the shortage of priests (and my relative actually provided the priest, too!). There were some non-catholics in the wedding party who did some whooping immediately after the Mass was ended -- in bad taste, to say the least. Couldn't they have waited until they were outside the church?

[/quote]

They probably wouldn't even understand such sentiment even if you were to explain it to them...or they might very well pretend not to understand (it can be hard to tell)...at least it's not of grave matter.


#14

[quote="pnewton, post:10, topic:316510"]
I am sorry. I didn't mean that you thought you were, but rather that because you are not in charge of the Mass, the idea of sin for anything about the Mass can't be considered.

[/quote]

Of course, such things can and should be considered. If necessary, I was willing to speak with my parish priest about this and then if he blatantly decided to reject Church teaching (this is highly unlikely) or was for some reason unable to understand what I was saying, I would have then had to write a letter to the bishop of my diocese about his actions. I thought it might be of grave matter not to do so as lay people have certain responsibilities like anyone else in the Church and I want to always at the VERY LEAST, remain in a state of Grace (it is best to do more though.)


#15

[quote="ChibiViolet, post:14, topic:316510"]
, I would have then had to write a letter to the bishop of my diocese about his actions.

[/quote]

That is an option, if there is an illicit Mass. I do not think it would be given anything but a chuckle over too much clapping.


#16

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