Continuing Anglicans, possibly reuniting with Rome?


#1

I’ve heard speculation from different sources that a group known as the Continuing Anglicans have voted to enter into Communion with the Apostolic See and become a sui juris Church.

I found a website that I think is for this group (there are quite a few different groups, like there are a few different independent “Catholic” Churches out there) acahome.org/tac/index.htm

Has anybody else heard about this? I think it would be great!


#2

Couple of lovely articles that their Primate wrote about +John Paul II+ (eternal memory) and our current Holy Father.

thetraditionalanglicanchurch.org.uk/obituary.html
thetraditionalanglicanchurch.org.uk/benedict.html


#3

The Continuing Anglicans are comprised of many different loosely affiliated Protestant denominations that have no unity of doctrine, and all of which are lacking valid orders. It is impossible for Rome to treat these diverse Protestants sects as if they constitute a single sui juris Church with valid orders.


#4

[quote=Matt16_18]The Continuing Anglicans are comprised of many different loosely affiliated Protestant denominations that have no unity of doctrine, and all of which are lacking valid orders. It is impossible for Rome to treat these diverse Protestants sects as if they constitute a single sui juris Church with valid orders.
[/quote]

Of course they lack valid orders, no church other than the Churches in Peace and Communion with the Apostolic See, or the Orthodox Churches have valid orders (Some Utrecht Old Catholics do as well). Leo XIII was clear on that.

Still, there is precedent. The Anglican Use Pastoral Provision I suppose could be a launching pad in order to validate these men who are part of this ecclesial community. It would only be the 400,000 members of this particular branch of the Anglican community who would be reunited with Rome. This particular branch is quite close to orthodox Catholicism, so it could happen.
Again though, this is just something I had heard for a while, so I can still keep my fingers crossed.


#5

for the record the traditional anglican communion most certainly does have one set of doctrine(the affirmation of st. louis)they all use the same prayer book(1928 bcp)and accept the ancient creeds especially the nicene as a statement of faith.they are almost all anglo-catholics by definition. they are not even remotely a mishmash of different protestant sects as suggested!you for sure will not get a dorky guitar folk mass at there services,you will always get the glorious language and liturgy of the 1928bcp in elizabethan english.if you really want to know there beliefs go to the (traditional anglican communion)website and you will get the real skinny instead of a bunch of baseless opinion.i,m attending a t.a.c. parish and can tell you that folks there are praying that this reunion will be ironed out with the holy see. in christian unity,celt


#6

‘Continuing Anglican’ is simply a way of describing Anglicans who are traditional in their approach to the Epsicopalian tradition. Some ‘Continuing Anglicans’ are part of the Episcopal Church, USA, and use the 1979 Book of Common Prayer; many are part of various other Anglican schisms such as the Reformed Episcopal Church (REC), Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC) , Anglican Mission in America(AMiA), and so forth. Many Continuing Anglicans have been ordained by bishops from both the Anglican and Old Catholic traditions, which means their orders may in fact be recognised as valid. Not all Continuing Anglicans are Anglo-Catholic. Many are of course.


#7

[quote=flameburns623]‘Continuing Anglican’ is simply a way of describing Anglicans who are traditional in their approach to the Epsicopalian tradition. Some ‘Continuing Anglicans’ are part of the Episcopal Church, USA, and use the 1979 Book of Common Prayer; many are part of various other Anglican schisms such as the Reformed Episcopal Church (REC), Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC) , Anglican Mission in America(AMiA), and so forth. Many Continuing Anglicans have been ordained by bishops from both the Anglican and Old Catholic traditions, which means their orders may in fact be recognised as valid. Not all Continuing Anglicans are Anglo-Catholic. Many are of course.
[/quote]

Yep, exactly. This group, led by Abp Hepworth, is the TAC. They basically have authentic Catholic dogmatic belief, so I hope reunion could take place in the near future.


#8

[quote=flameburns623]‘Continuing Anglican’ is simply a way of describing Anglicans who are traditional in their approach to the Epsicopalian tradition. Some ‘Continuing Anglicans’ are part of the Episcopal Church, USA, and use the 1979 Book of Common Prayer; many are part of various other Anglican schisms such as the Reformed Episcopal Church (REC), Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC) , Anglican Mission in America(AMiA), and so forth. Many Continuing Anglicans have been ordained by bishops from both the Anglican and Old Catholic traditions, which means their orders may in fact be recognised as valid. Not all Continuing Anglicans are Anglo-Catholic. Many are of course.
[/quote]

Almost, but not quite. A Continuing Anglican is, specifically, one who left ECUSA, or the relevant part pf the Anglican Communion, after 1978, and the St. Louis meeting that resulted in the St. Louis declaration, from which the term “Continuing” is taken, and the original Continuning Church, the Anglican Church of North America. Of those you list, only the Traditional Anglican Communion (in the US, that’s the Anglican Church in America) are Continuing Anglicans. Other significant Continuing Anglican jurisdictions are the Anglican Province of Christ the King, the Anglican Catholic Church, the Anglican Diocese of the Holy Cross, the Holy Catholic Church (Anglican Rite) and the Anglican Missionary Church. There are many others; the key feature of Continuing Anglicanism is continuing fission. The REC is probably an ancestor of them, but not one, strictly speaking. Nor is the Charismatic Episcopal Church, though it is often confused with one.

Neither the AMIA, which remains within the Anglican Communion (i.e. in communion with Canterbury), nor the orthodox souls left in ECUSA (all 6 of them) are Continuing Anglicans, per se.

Agree with your other observations.

GKC


#9

[quote=BillyT92679]Of course they lack valid orders, no church other than the Churches in Peace and Communion with the Apostolic See, or the Orthodox Churches have valid orders (Some Utrecht Old Catholics do as well). Leo XIII was clear on that.
[/quote]

Continuing Anglicans, the TAC and the rest of this alphabet soup of schismatic Anglicans, all lack validly ordained priests and bishops, and that means that the lay members of these various sects have not received all three Sacraments of Initiation. There is only one way that these Anglican Protestants can come into full communion with the Catholic Church, and that is by being catechized in the faith, making a profession of faith, and receiving all three Sacraments of Initiation - just like every other Protestant the comes into full communion with the Catholic Church.

Still, there is precedent. The Anglican Use Pastoral Provision I suppose could be a launching pad in order to validate these men who are part of this ecclesial community.

That is indeed the precedent that Anglicans should look at if they desire to once again come into full communion with the Catholic Church. The six Anglican Use Parishes in the USA are part of the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church and are NOT now, and never have been, a sui juris Church.

The Anglican Church came into existence when some members of the Latin Rite in England committed the sin of schism. It only makes sense that Rome would want the progeny of the original schismatic sect to reunite with the parent Rite of the Catholic Church from which Anglicans broke away.

It is pure fantasy to think that that Rome is ever going to think that the TAC is anything other than a Protestant sect whose members are in need of receiving at least two of the Sacraments of Initiation. Lay Catholics need to understand why Rome sees the Anglicans as a Protestant sect, so that the Anglicans that do wish to become members of the Catholic Church are not misled and further delayed from taking the steps necessary to be received into the Catholic Church.

The Catholics that are guilty of encouraging Anglicans to persist in their schism by raising false hopes that Rome is ever going to recognize any Anglican sect as being a true church are doing these Anglicans an injustice. Spreading these false hopes to the Anglicans only keeps these poor confused souls from receiving what God desires them to receive – the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.


#10

matt,are you speaking ''ex cathedra"on this subject?should we schismatic heretics stop all dialogue with the holy see now that you,ve spoken?I think rome has a better informed decision about the t.a.c. than yourself,otherwise talks about reunion would not have progressed this far along.in christian unity,celt


#11

Not at all – the TAC should continue to dialogue with Rome so that they may come to know the truth.


#12

[quote=azcelt]matt,are you speaking ''ex cathedra"on this subject?should we schismatic heretics stop all dialogue with the holy see now that you,ve spoken?I think rome has a better informed decision about the t.a.c. than yourself,otherwise talks about reunion would not have progressed this far along.in christian unity,celt
[/quote]

Matt raises the important point that Anglican orders are invalid, except in the case of those whose bishops who have had Old Catholic bishops laying on hands as part of their ordination.

That simply means that for union with Rome, the priests of the Anglican groups would have to be at least conditionally reordained and then the laity would have to be Confirmed.

I think it is highly unlikely that Rome would allow their Primate, who I understand is married, to be ordained a bishop in the Catholic Church. It was made very clear to the Anglican Use parishes that their married clergy would be accepted, but not married bishops. When the former Anglican bishop of London, Graham Leonard, was accepted into the Catholic Church he was reordained a priest, not a bishop.

Having accepted these terms I can believe, and in fact pray, that Rome would allow these former Anglicans to be members of the Catholic Church with their beautiful liturgy and Daily Offices, as has been done for the Anglican Use parishes in the United States.


#13

Exactly. Since the Anglicans lack validly ordained priests, their Sacraments of Confirmation and Eucharist are not only illicit, but invalid. And this is why Rome must treat the Anglicans of the TAC as a Protestant sect that desires to come into full communion with the Catholic Church. The Anglican “priests” are, in fact, laymen, and are no more validly ordained priests than are Lutheran or Baptist pastors. Which is not to say that many of the “priests” of the TAC don’t actually have a calling to the priesthood. That would have to be determined on a case by case basis, and the Bishops of the Catholic Church must confirm the calling to the priesthood.

Having accepted these terms I can believe, and in fact pray, that Rome would allow these former Anglicans to be members of the Catholic Church with their beautiful liturgy and Daily Offices, as has been done for the Anglican Use parishes in the United States.

Agreed. Catholics should pray for the Anglicans to end their schism by accepting the authority Rome. The Catholic Church can accommodate the desires of high church Anglicans to preserve their liturgies, and I believe that Rome should do this, and would do this.


#14

I would like to add to Matt’s observations as to the “impossiblity” or “near impossibility” for continuing Anglicans to be received as a *sui juris * Church:

(1) Under the Codes (East and West) governing the inter-relationship among the Churches in the Catholic communinon, the status of a *sui juris * Church has been granted, thus far, only to Churches of the East coming into communion with the Catholic Church. Thus, we have 22 *sui juris * Churches from the East: the Eastern Catholic Churches.

(2) There is only one *sui juris * Church representing the West in the Catholic communion: the Roman Catholic Church, with the Latin Rite as her predominant rite. (There are 6 other Rites in the Roman Catholic Church, although not in constant use.) As of now, the Anglican Use within the Roman Catholic Church is just a “Use,” as is with the TLM, used by parishes (thru a priest) granted the indult. The Anglicans coming into communion may have the “Anglican Use” elevated to a “Rite,” but to be granted the status of a *sui juris * Church as well, as defined in the present Codes, might be far fetched at this moment.

(3) The Anglican Church, and the various Churches in the Anglican communion, were a part of the Roman Catholic Church and those returning should be re-united with their mother Church.


#15

[quote=Amadeus]I would like to add to Matt’s observations as to the “impossiblity” or “near impossibility” for continuing Anglicans to be received as a *sui juris *Church:

(1) Under the Codes (East and West) governing the inter-relationship among the Churches in the Catholic communinon, the status of a *sui juris *Church has been granted, thus far, only to Churches of the East coming into communion with the Catholic Church. Thus, we have 22 *sui juris *Churches from the East: the Eastern Catholic Churches.

(2) There is only one *sui juris *Church representing the West in the Catholic communion: the Roman Catholic Church, with the Latin Rite as her predominant rite. (There are 6 other Rites in the Roman Catholic Church, although not in constant use.) As of now, the Anglican Use within the Roman Catholic Church is just a “Use,” as is with the TLM, used by parishes (thru a priest) granted the indult. The Anglicans coming into communion may have the “Anglican Use” elevated to a “Rite,” but to be granted the status of a *sui juris *Church as well, as defined in the present Codes, might be far fetched at this moment.

(3) The Anglican Church, and the various Churches in the Anglican communion, were a part of the Roman Catholic Church and those returning should be re-united with their mother Church.
[/quote]

I’m not advocating a parallel Church or even a parallel Latin ritual Church, nor do I buy the notion of what High Church Anglicans think (“Anglo-Catholics”). The Branch Theory is erroneous ecclesialogy in my opinion; being Catholic means being in Communion with Rome. You can’t claim Catholicity and be outside the bonds of communion. This goes for the Old Catholics, PNCC, Liberal Catholic Church, or the SSPX/SSPV.

But whatever can be done to return people to Rome is great. Who knows what the Vatican would do? We can speculate one way or the other, but whatever the Apostolic See decides, even if it sets a new precedent, we go with it. I just heard about this through the grapevine.


#16

The Old Order Catholics, Polish National Catholic Church and the SSPX all presently have holy orders that Rome recognizes as valid, but illicit. This puts them in a class that is entirely different than that of the Anglican Protestants. If one of the schismatic sects with valid orders ever decided to recant of the sin of schism and return to full communion with the Holy Catholic Church, the process would be much different than what the Anglicans will have to go through.

But whatever can be done to return people to Rome is great. Who knows what the Vatican would do? We can speculate one way or the other, but whatever the Apostolic See decides, even if it sets a new precedent, we go with it. I just heard about this through the grapevine.

There is only one way that a person can come into full communion with the Catholic Church - and that is by receiving the Sacraments of Initiation and accepting everything that she infallibly teaches. What the Vatican cannot do is waive these requirements for Anglican Protestants. This is not speculation, this is the way it is.


#17

[quote=azcelt]for the record the traditional anglican communion most certainly does have one set of doctrine(the affirmation of st. louis)they all use the same prayer book(1928 bcp)and accept the ancient creeds especially the nicene as a statement of faith.they are almost all anglo-catholics by definition. they are not even remotely a mishmash of different protestant sects as suggested!you for sure will not get a dorky guitar folk mass at there services,you will always get the glorious language and liturgy of the 1928bcp in elizabethan english.if you really want to know there beliefs go to the (traditional anglican communion)website and you will get the real skinny instead of a bunch of baseless opinion.i,m attending a t.a.c. parish and can tell you that folks there are praying that this reunion will be ironed out with the holy see. in christian unity,celt
[/quote]

Who is their primate?


#18

[quote=Ignatius]Who is their primate?
[/quote]

Archbishop John Hepworth from Australia.

Here is his latest statement on reunion with Rome:

[left]**Media Release
****From the Primate of the Traditional Anglican Communion
Archbishop John Hepworth
1 st May 2005 **
[/left]
The election of Pope Benedict XVI on April 19, inspires all of us in the Traditional Anglican Communion to give thanks to God for this wise and godly shepherd who in the few short days since he was chosen by the Lord has several times recalled that our task as Christians is to work for that unity which Christ, the Good Shepherd, desired for all his flock.

Likewise, we give thanks for his clarion call last Monday at St. Paul’s Outside the Walls for renewed commitment to evangelization throughout the whole world in the service of that same unity in charity that has always been the true sign of Christ’s triumph over sin and death.

In our ministry as an Anglican Communion, through God’s grace, we have grown around the world in a new evangelization that has brought renewed hope to a tradition whose origins may even date back to Apostolic times, but we have done so using all the modern means of social communication at our disposal. That methodology has enabled our Communion, at first a small remnant, to grow in a few short years to the several hundred thousand believers who now find Christ in us.

One element of that methodology that I continue to find very effective is robust public debate, even in the media, about many of our positions, goals and activities as a Communion, and as we continue our evangelization, our worship, our ministry to the Anglican world, and our tireless labor for Christian unity, I have committed myself to maintaining the closest, and broadest, links of communication with my fellow bishops, with the clergy and laity of our Communion, and with the media in each of its forms. The media is now the instrument through which we touch the world we are called to evangelize.

Nevertheless, as we move in increasingly positive directions to full and visible unity with other Christians, there will be some occasions where respect for our partners in dialogue will require us to maintain sensitive and loving confidentiality concerning significant initiatives and developments.

I believe this will particularly be the case with respect to certain aspects of our relations with representatives of the Anglican Communion and of the Holy See, where I am convinced that the special delicacy of the subject, in the light of Christ’s prayer that unity in Him exclude no one, makes it appropriate for us to withdraw our activities in this area from ongoing media consideration until we can do so in full partnership with those who share our yearning for unity.

Thus, as we pursue this stage in our journey toward full and visible Christian unity, I will henceforward not be commenting in the media on discussions we might have with those representatives, though I will, of course, keep each of my fellow bishops, as true sharers in this labor and commitment, fully informed, relying heavily on their experience and advice, to keep us heading with the necessary confidentiality, where the Spirit wants us to go.

I thank each of you for your understanding in this regard; I assure each of you that our progress in this area is real and continuing, and I ask your constant prayers for the Spirit’s guidance in an awesome task from which, with God’s help, we will not shrink.

Irenicist


#19

Great news! We can only hope for the best.

I’ve heard from a source who have had mystical experience and whose writings of her mystical experience with the Lord and the Blessed Mother was even reviewed by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith headed by the then Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, that the unity of Christians will come about as fast as the collapse of the Berlin wall.

If this prophecy is true, we just praise the Lord!

Pio


#20

All of this are positive news, in a difficult world, is beautiful reading this.


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