Controversy Ensues As Alabama, Oregon, FSU, And Ohio State Final College Football Playoff Teams Selected


#1

Controversy Ensues As Alabama, Oregon, FSU, And Ohio State Final College Football Playoff Teams Selected

forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2014/12/07/controversy-ensues-as-alabama-oregon-fsu-and-ohio-state-final-college-football-playoff-teams-selected/

As always there is a controversy regarding the NCAA’s mythical Football National Championship - even in the inaugural year of there actually being a playoff that theoretically settles things on the field - rather than in some office by some anonymous “experts”.

Two deserving teams from the Big 12 Conference, TCU and Baylor were passed over to complete the arbitrary four team field.

In the playoffs “Number ONE ranked Alabama” plays “Number 4 ranked Ohio State” tonight in one semi-final; while number 2 Ranked Oregon plays number 3 ranked Florida State (which nonetheless is the ONLY undefeated team while the other three have lost one game during their seasons).

Why THOSE four teams in … and THOSE two out?"

I hate to think there is crookedness in sports. Fixed boxing matches that those in the know are hip to – and the like. Or national championships decided by judges using floating criteria, rather than “let the teams play and let’s see …”.

In recent years it seems that it is “common knowledge” that the Southeast Conference (or at least its Western Branch) is the best conference in America … a self-justifying “fact” that gave its Champion (and even just its one loss team(s) a shot (or EXTRA shot) at the national title where elsewhere a loss is an eliminator.

So here is Alabama …. not only IN the playoffs, but ranked number ONE and with theoretically the “easiest game” in the semi-finals.

Florida State is there because it is undefeated and the ACC Champ. One wonders if had the Seminoles decided NOT to go to this playoff - they could have just declared themselves no worse than National Co-Champs on this basis. Oh yeah. Florida State is the defending national champ to boot.

**Ohio State **is there partially due to the fact that its lone loss came early in the year, but to a very mediocre Virgina Tech team (BAD loss). Still, other than Florida State, OSU has the longest winning streak of the eligibles.

Oregon’s only loss of the year came against Arizona … a loss it later avenged in the Pac 12 playoffs with a vengeance. The Pac 12 was viewed as perhaps the second best league to the SEC by many (though Oregon played in the weaker Division this year).

Is there some PC stuff going on here? Or is it regional TV bucks that determined the call?

If Baylor and Texas Christian were the same teams with the same players … but named Oklahoma and Texas … would they have been left out?

Texas Christian does have that “C-word” as part of their name … which as we know “offends people” especially during the “winter holidays”.

Nonetheless, as one loss teams go … its loss was the least worst of any in the conversation. TCU lost by just 3 points, on the ROAD, to only one loss BAYLOR.

Baylor can brag of being Champions of the Big 12 OVER TCU by virtue of that win … but
ONE week later it suffered its one loss … by 2 TDs (bad loss!) at West Virginia. Then rebounded to beat everyone else on its schedule rather badly. TCU might argue that on a neutral field it would have bested Baylor. In fact Baylor came from behind at home to eke out its home win (in a VERY exciting game).

Besides not being a traditional name at bowl time, Baylor has as its University President Kenneth Starr, whose independent investigation of Bill Clinton revealed the latter’s subornation of perjury and led to his eventual impeachment trial. If Baylor won the NCAA wouldn’t Starr’s face be shown on TV then? :hmmm:

At 1 pm PST on January 1 …

TCU beat the Mississippi team that beat “Number ONE Alabama” 23-17, by the score of
42-3! If Alabama actually wins the playoff … some group somewhere (the Associated Press? Sporting News?) should consider naming TCU at LEAST National Co-Champs (as has been done in other years by other news orgs).

BAYLOR’S case for injustice was looking good for awhile too … as in the Cotton Bowl it was leading two-loss Michigan State by 20 points into the 4th Quarter. MSU lost ONLY to Oregon (by 9 points) and Ohio State (by 12). MSU at this moment had rallied to pull to within 6 of Baylor with 5 minutes left (after a Baylor TD was called back on a clipping penalty).

YOUR thoughts? Pick a controversy, weigh IN. :slight_smile: Maybe some of the people I usually contend with politically on these pages will agree with me on some of these non-partisan issues? In any case Happy New Year all! :wink:


#2

Stunning end to the Cotton Bowl saw Baylor missing field goals and Michigan State
rallying from that 20 point deficit win 42 - 41.

With Michigan State having only lost to Oregon (by 9) and Ohio State (by 12) … a Baylor win by more points (which looked like it would happen for a bit) would have been a good arguing point for Baylor.

As it is … suddenly the Ohio State choice for the playoffs looks a bit more justified (at least in the case of its “jumping” Baylor in the rankings now … due to “on the field” reckonings).

I still think that TCU might actually be the best team in the U.S. If anyone got yinced in a playoff scenario it was them IMO. :wink:

Whatever the results of the “semi-final” bowls today … I hope this is a light-hearted holiday thread with a shelf life that probably expires after the “championship game”.


#3

Really? Pulling the it’s a Christian school so they aren’t in the top four card? I can’t deal with silly conspiracies like that.


#4

The real controversy is the amount of time and money that is spent on college football. Its a game, people.

(I won’t even mention the color of the Duck’s uniforms. It hurts to watch them. )


#5

And when March Madness expanded to 68 teams, the 69th and 70th teams whined.

Did it make much difference really? All the teams lost eventually but one.


#6

This year’s method is probably the fairest method to determine who the best college team in the nation is going to be.
If the drawing board is completely erased, and none of the preexisting conferences and leagues existed, there might be a more rational method of selection. But there is a desire to see a national college champion given the current structure, and this years method seems to me to be the best method of fairly determining that sort of an outcome that there has been to date.


#7

It can’t hurt today, I don’t mind the 'Noles, they have turned over the ball to the Ducks about 3 straight times, it wasn’t a bad game at the Rose Bowl until the last 10 minutes.

:grouphug:

:takethat: Florida State University fans watching the game.


#8

I wish the best to the Horned Frogs, many teams have been hard-done over the years by the rankings system, BYU, Boise State, Penn State, yes, not too popular to mention them but the teams nonetheless were good. I hope they do put TCU up there for consideration.


#9

Oregon 59 Florida State 20

That is practically tripling last year’s National Champs in ending their 29 game win streak.

:eek: Wow.

Thought Florida State showed little class in not shaking hands after the game. Did they think Oregon ran up the score?

They didn’t … why would they? Rankings don’t matter now, just the victory.

Did Wake Forest shake their hands when the Seminoles beat them 43 -3 earlier? Maybe it’s been so long since they lost they were stunned. :shrug:

Getting ready for Ohio State and Alabama now.

But for the possible injustice to TCU* I like this playoff format better than that BCS thing so far.

  • despite the lopsided Rose Bowl score … I would not have had Florida State miss the playoffs in favor of TCU. The other three entrants there’d have been a better argument for. Apparently Oregon deserved its spot from the results. :smiley:

#10

Then I PARTICULARLY thank you for weighing in here anyway. It keeps things interesting. :smiley:

As for a conspiracy … well … where things are decided in back rooms by anonymous “judges” instead of on the playing fields … some conspiracy theories become plausible.

PERHAPS more plausible reasons for the TCU snubbing (***again - ***it’s been snubbed before) might be:

– It is a less TRADITIONAL team (per possible TV ratings) than Ohio State, Alabama or Oregon. Notwithstanding that TCU got votes as a Co-Champion or Champion in 1935, 1938 and 2010 (it was undefeated in the latter two years).

– If TCU was chosen and WON its first round game … the final in Arlington, Texas would be less of a neutral site than for any of the others (ditto for Baylor in that).

Whatever the reason(s), TCU was snubbed … and actually overhauled in the ratings late by Ohio State … which had ALSO lost its starting QB for the playoffs!

That said … I kind of like where you can’t tell who is the best team in college football.

In the old days all those final bowl games were spiced by the possibilities and we used to watch all of the January 1 games to see for ourselves.

With this playoff system … it’s an improvement over that BCS thing. :mad: A deserving champion will be crowned.

This year though … there’s still a plausible odd team out. And that team is Texas Christian. It was NOT going to be Alabama I’ll tell you. < (Conspiracy minded me again ;)).


#11

I believe that the reason that TCU was snubbed is because their conference doesn’t have a championship game. TCU and Baylor tied in the Big 12.

The selection committee also isn’t anonymous, if that’s the back room judges you are talking about. I can’t give you the link on my phone but a Google search of playoff selection committee will give you a website with pictures of the members and their bios.


#12

BYU, even Notre Dame went through these kinds of events. It wasn’t because they were Mormons or Catholics, in their cases it was because of their supposedly lax schedules compared to other competitors.

A strong Notre Dame is good for college football, we haven’t see a National Championship Irish squad in quite a while. They still are one of the biggest draws in football.

And NCAA basketball is just full of Christian schools, Loyola Marymount and so on. Xavier, St. John’s, Duke, and so on.

But there may well be something to TCU not being picked over say the Buckeyes, I’d believe that. You’ve got to do well the whole season. I think they said earlier, that Ohio State defeated Wisconsin for the Big 10 championship, 59-0; that must have been a convincing win. I didn’t know they lost their QB. I’m not sure if they take that into consideration.


#13

I’ve felt all along that FSU should not have made the cut, due to their weak schedule. I was glad to see my assessment vindicated.

Although their ACC schedule was at least mildly respectable, it reminds me of another undefeated team some years ago…

[quote=Path_Finder]I wish the best to the Horned Frogs, many teams have been hard-done over the years by the rankings system, BYU…
[/quote]

BYU, in 1984, played a schedule against teams that were completely unranked at the end of the season. At a time when “real” teams generally played on January 1, BYU played in the Holiday Bowl on December 21 against a weak 6-5 Michigan team. The team with the best record on their schedule was 8-4 Air Force, yet BYU won 5 of their 13 games by a touchdown or less. They never should have been rewarded for such a record with a national championship.


#14

AP, UPI, all of these polls voted for BYU:

AP, BR, CFRA, FWAA, NCF, NFF, PS, SR, UPI, USAT/CNN

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football_national_championships_in_NCAA_Division_I_FBS

BYU was undefeated, Florida with 1 loss wasn’t nor Nebraska with 2 losses or Washington with 1 loss.

BYU could only play who was put in front of them, it wasn’t their fault so they hardly remind me of Florida State so they surely deserved it over the Big Schools and the polls gave it to them.

Rainbows, Pitt, Air Force, Colorado State. That isn’t a particularly weak schedule. Baylor, SDSU.


#15

Boise State, perfect in 2006:

The Broncos played five bowl-bound teams during the season—Oregon State, their only opponent in one of the six BCS conferences; Utah; and conference rivals Hawaiʻi, San José State, and Nevada. Four out of five of these teams won their bowl game. The only loser, Nevada, lost by one point. Notably, they put a 42-14 defeat on an Oregon State team that would later in the season end the 38-game regular-season winning streak of Southern California.[9]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Boise_State_Broncos_football_team

So, they definitely have a right to claim they should have been considered for the National Championship as well but college football is not perfect. However, smaller colleges should not be penalized if they are not invited to play in the New Year’s day bowls. They can only play who is put in front of them.

And FSU just lost composure, they made a game of it and then, 3 straight turnovers, 5 in the whole game. That clearly helped do them in.


#16

That BYU team deserved its National Title. But it took a perfect storm … being frozen out of the big bowls no matter what they did. They were the only undefeated team as you recall … but more than that. The number one teams kept falling … while BYU secured a high ranking by its road win at Eastern power Pitt on ESPN at the beginning of the season.

If not BYU … who? As you say. Per the rankings at bowl time … Oklahoma was number 2. IT lost to Washington in the Orange Bowl. Washington HAD been Number ONE but lost to USC 17 -9 late in the year in a game that everyone saw. The Huskies dropped to number 4 and were only the Pac 10 (or was it Pac 8?) co-champs with USC. USC won the Rose Bowl over Big Ten Champ Ohio State (but between those spoiler wins USC got beaten at home against both UCLA AND Notre Dame.

That same Notre Dame team lost at HOME to Air Force by two touchdowns. BYU later
beat Air Force AT Air Force. So not ALL their conference games were easy. In fact, BYU had to beat Hawaii on the road too … Hawaii beat out Air Force for the WAC number two spot that year. NOT such an easy conference really.

The number 3 team in the country was Florida. Ineligible. So … the option would have been Washington. Well, the clincher is Washington also played Michigan and beat them just 20-11. BYU beat them by LESS points … 24 - 17, but came from behind sensationally to do it with QB Robbie Bosco hobbling on one leg (and scoring more points on UM than Washington did).

Mostly the Bowls were (and in some ways still ARE) a closed deal. Even as number one, BYU wasn’t offered a challenge by any of the other big boys - perhaps allowing Air Force or Hawaii to have played in the Holiday Bowl vs. Michigan. So they beat a Michigan team that was 6 - 5 with losses to Washington and Ohio State among that 5 in close games … and an early win against THEN Number one Miami for an early season high ranking.

youtube.com/watch?v=lnYfr7Yicso < BYU’s 1984 (on the heels of the Jim Mc Mahon and Steve Young and Todd Christianson years) as worthy a team as the Pitt or Penn State teams that DID get THEIR chances to play for a title when THEY were undefeated. In some years Texas in the old Southwest Conference was … the Longhorns and the 7 dwarfs. The Big 8 conference had a little 5 of gimme games. And sometimes those big teams played cupcakes in non-league. :shrug:

LOVED that BYU won in '84. And that UNLV won the basketball crown in '90. Because they were allowed to (however small the probabilities) :smiley:

Oh LOOK! Two teams from above the Mason-Dixon line are playing for the title.

Last year, with the BCS it’d have been Alabama-Florida State for the title. With Oregon/Ohio State being JUST the Rose Bowl. THIS is better. TCU’s exclusion notwithstanding. Still hope some voting group gives them a co-championship on their merits. The UCLA/Kansas State game today might give some input as to whether that would be merited perhaps.


#17

UPI coaches were not permitted to vote for Florida, and some of the AP voters penalized Florida for being on probation (who knows how many, but I remember reading at least a couple quotes from voting sportswriters who explained that in justifying their votes).

[quote=Path_Finder]BYU could only play who was put in front of them, it wasn’t their fault so they hardly remind me of Florida State so they surely deserved it over the Big Schools and the polls gave it to them.
[/quote]

BYU like any school is free to create as strong or as weak a schedule as they want. They chose to be in the WAC (which was a rather poor though rising conference in 1984), and this obligated them to play in the Holiday Bowl if they won the conference, which they did almost every year.

[quote=Path_Finder]Rainbows(7-4), Pitt(3-7-1), Air Force(8-4), Colorado State(3-8). That isn’t a particularly weak schedule. Baylor(5-6), SDSU(4-7-1).
[/quote]

Here is the full list of the opponents’ records:

Pitt 3-7-1
Baylor 5-6
Tulsa 6-5
Hawaii 7-4
Colo St 3-8
Wyoming 6-6
Air Force 8-4
New Mexico 4-8
UTEP 2-9
SD State 4-7-1
Utah 6-5-1
Utah St 1-10
Michigan 6-6


#18

Eastern power Pitt who ended 3-7-1.

[quote=CaptFun]If not BYU … who? As you say. Per the rankings at bowl time … Oklahoma was number 2. IT lost to Washington in the Orange Bowl. Washington HAD been Number ONE but lost to USC 17 -9 late in the year in a game that everyone saw. The Huskies dropped to number 4 and were only the Pac 10 (or was it Pac 8?) co-champs with USC. USC won the Rose Bowl over Big Ten Champ Ohio State (but between those spoiler wins USC got beaten at home against both UCLA AND Notre Dame.
[/quote]

Frankly I think any of those teams would probably have beaten BYU. But we’ll never know because BYU insulated themselves from real competition.

[quote=CaptFun]The number 3 team in the country was Florida. Ineligible.
[/quote]

Ineligible to be voted on by the coaches. Who reallycares? Everyone knows the coaches were constrained, and there were a few years where the coaches’ poll didn’t reflect the best team because that team was on probation.

[quote=CaptFun]LOVED that BYU won in '84. And that UNLV won the basketball crown in '90. Because they were allowed to (however small the probabilities) :smiley:
[/quote]

I always loved when there was conflict and dissension about which of 2 or more good teams was really number 1. Or later when there would be disputes about who should be in the BCS, or in the playoff this year. I never felt BYU deserved to be in that mix.
[/quote]


#19

1984 was a sort of watershed year for college football in other ways.

To prevent the emergence of western teams (and midwestern teams like those in the MAC), the Big 8, Southeast, Southwest, ACC, and Notre Dame and various independents formed the CFA to skirt the newer NCAA rules (TV revenue sharing, TV exposure, limiting teams to “just” 75 scholarships) that were allowing more competitiveness with emerging schools and leagues than they were comfortable with.

The Big 10 and Pac 10 < (which had picked off emerging western power Arizona State and Arizona from the WAC about this time), stuck with the NCAA – possibly protecting the CFA from monopoly lawsuits.

In the west particularly the loss of revenues killed schools like San Jose State - that was playing and half the time beating Stanford and Cal, Long Beach State (which was producing stars like former NFL All-pro Terry Metcalf), Fresno State (regionally challenged but putting many players into the pros) and in 1984, Cal State Fullerton fresh off its second NCAA baseball title, which won EIGHT road games (including a loss to Randall Cunningham’s UNLV team that was ruled to have 7 ineligible players). Those Titans beat Hawaii in Hawaii by more points than BYU did – upgraded its future non-league schedules to including ROAD games against schools like Georgia (twice), LSU, Florida, Utah, Wyoming, Army, Colorado State, San Diego State (and finally home games against those last three).

After the CFA choked off funds and TV contracts the PCAA (later the Big West) and MAC were the worst hit. The Ivy League too but they weren’t trying.

The reason some of those western schools’ athletes did so much better in the pros than some of the more well known “bigger conference stars” may be that they had to be PERFECT to even get noticed. They only got bowl monies if they were IN the bowl.
The big bowls only wanted the big teams that already had a lot of money. So the Orange Bowl filled the Florida ineligibility slot with number 4 Washington instead of number 1 BYU.

Maybe BYU would have beaten Oklahoma too! :shrug: Even though future Super Bowl winning QBs Jim Mc Mahon and Steve Young weren’t there anymore. :shrug: The Pac 10 had a deal with the Rose Bowl … and sent its co-champ USC.

BYU barely had a close road game geographically. Rather like Oregon now. Had to get on jets. Many of those Southern and Eastern schools can ride busses to all their conference games and never really play in an entirely hostile camp due to their followings being able to easily travel there (i.e. - they may be a little “softer” than a team that has to play games at altitude and in colder, wetter weather constantly). Not that polls usually consider such. But I do. :smiley:

Back to this thread’s main focus: I’m rooting for Oregon to finally win a really big game. But I will admit, Ohio State has rebounded nicely from its awful loss to Virginia Tech and from winning big games with what is now their third string quarterback.

The game in Arlington is pretty much neutral territory. A long trek from either Columbus, Ohio or Eugene, Oregon.

But it will be a GAME and not a ranking guess that decides things. I’d be ticked if the voting group that picked the final four instead could now eliminate the game and just SELECT the national champion. Especially if it decided to pick Ohio State!

Hey … that’d be almost no worse than somehow dropping TCU from number 3 to number 6 the same week they’d won 55 - 3 in their finale. :wink: (And before CRUSHING the Mississippi team that beat “number one!” Alabama).

The selection committee might be rooting for UCLA to smash Kansas St. (one of TCU’s bigger victories) today to somewhat justify their final four picks. Michigan State’s coming back from 20 points down to edge Baylor helped justify the Ohio State pick/promotion a bit I think.

This is fun.


#20

Agreed, Mountain West, WAC and the Big West were getting a bit of a short deal back then.


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