Coptic bishop blasts Anglican bishop over Islam


#1

For those who are still so deluded as to think Islam does not persecute Christians please visit:

www.virtueonline.org

He not only tells the story, but let’s the Anglican leader know that his actions leave the poor copts hanging out to dry…or in some cases hanging. He also contrasts that to the Pope’s policy.


#2

Father, could you please give us the title of the article? Interesting article about Canterbury and Rome but I couldn’t find the Copt article.


#3

americancatholic.org/Messenger/Apr2002/Feature2.asp

Cestusdei, you have posted yet another link that purports to blast Islam.

Please tell us all how your repeated posting of anti-islamic articles, and your statement that you do not care if “all muslim holy sites were nuked”, square with the teachings of the Church as presented by Msgr. Champlin:

Rather than dwell on differences and disputes, Jews, Christians and Muslims need to focus on religious beliefs that can bring us together in peace.

I ask this question specifically because you make yourself known as a Priest, but you are teaching things that are not supported by the authority of the Church. If you could explain the justification you have for rejecting the approach of the Church and bishops towards muslims, and for condoning the use of nuclear weapons on muslim holy sites, I think we could all get a better understanding of which part of the Catholic tradition and moral authority you are drawing on.


#4

Yo, ho, ho, my friend pro! Cestusdei is indeed a priest. Perhaps it might help you to understand that his screen name means “fist of God”. Priests are human too and subject to hyperbole as well as the rest of us. He is a priest along the lines of Bishop Odo of Normandy. He’s out there in the trenches with the rest of us AND is willing to call a spade a spade. Remember: Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it!


#5

He’s out there in the trenches with the rest of us AND is willing to call a spade a spade. Remember: Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it!

Well, I am asking a specific question regarding Church teachings, and since he is a priest I hope he will help me to understand.

I see two things in his posts that every single authoritative Church teaching I can find says we should not do:

  1. Attack islam and muslims. Every work I can find says that we are as Catholics required to focus on common ground and work with muslims cooperatively for peace and understanding.

  2. The use of nuclear weapons in response to terrorism: I find only rejection of this idea in the Church’s teaching.

So, I would like to know which authoritative work of the Church cestusdei is relying on as a Priest. It seems to me that the Vatican has made its policy clear: focus on common ground and try to understand and befriend muslims. The policy on nuclear attacks on civilians is even more blisteringly clear.

Given this, I am confused by cestusdei’s statements and would like to know whether this is his personal belief, or if he believes that he is representing the teaching of the Church on these points.


#6

[quote=brotherhrolf]Father, could you please give us the title of the article? Interesting article about Canterbury and Rome but I couldn’t find the Copt article.
[/quote]

I think this virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3635 is the Copt article cestusdei was referring to


#7

From the article:

Dr. Mouneer’s quotation from the Koran “Let there be no compulsion in religion …” (Sura 2.256) is rather misleading as he must be aware that is a verse which is considered as abrogated (an-n?sakh wa’l’mans?kh) and is, at the very least, ambiguous.

Interesting. The Anglican implies that he knows what Islam teaches better than the Islamic scholar does. I don’t think that’s likely the case.


#8

[quote=discipleofJesus]I think this virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3635 is the Copt article cestusdei was referring to
[/quote]

Thanks, disciple. I find it interesting that he is also the Metropolitan of Glastonbury. My patron saint, St. Dunstan, was abbot of Glastonbury before he became archbishop of Canterbury. I shall pray for St. Dunstan’s intercession.

Pro, hyperbole is hyperbole. We in the west are in far more danger from one of your “peace loving brethren” exploding a nuke in one of our cities than you are of us exploding a nuke on one of your holy sites! And, please! once again, drop the Catholic tag. Fly your true colors! This is most tiresome! I want YOU to remember September 11, 2001. Consider it Pearl Harbor. In the words of Admiral Yamamoto, you have awoken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve. You can listen to the liberals of the American media but you gravely mistake the thoughts and feelings of the American folks - the regular people not the Hollywood elite or the East Coast liberals. I say unto you again - those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.


#9

[quote=brotherhrolf]Thanks, disciple. I find it interesting that he is also the Metropolitan of Glastonbury. My patron saint, St. Dunstan, was abbot of Glastonbury before he became archbishop of Canterbury. I shall pray for St. Dunstan’s intercession.

Pro, hyperbole is hyperbole. We in the west are in far more danger from one of your “peace loving brethren” exploding a nuke in one of our cities than you are of us exploding a nuke on one of your holy sites! And, please! once again, drop the Catholic tag. Fly your true colors! This is most tiresome! I want YOU to remember September 11, 2001. Consider it Pearl Harbor. In the words of Admiral Yamamoto, you have awoken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve. You can listen to the liberals of the American media but you gravely mistake the thoughts and feelings of the American folks - the regular people not the Hollywood elite or the East Coast liberals. I say unto you again - those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
[/quote]

haha i love it when people bring up 9/11 to justify their hatred.
were you there in ny in 9/11? did you see people jump out of buildings or seen the buildings collapse? do you know anyone that got killed?
no? then dont use that excuse.
and for your info, i have. thank you and have a good day.


#10

[quote=Muslim]haha i love it when people bring up 9/11 to justify their hatred.
were you there in ny in 9/11? did you see people jump out of buildings or seen the buildings collapse? do you know anyone that got killed?
no? then dont use that excuse.
and for your info, i have. thank you and have a good day.
[/quote]

I used to wonder why people out there questioning “are muslims human?” now I know what you are after reading your post here.


#11

[quote=Cyber Knight]I used to wonder why people out there questioning “are muslims human?” now I know what you are after reading your post here.
[/quote]

what am i? dont use blind hatred and ignorance to spew filthy stuff


#12

[quote=Muslim]what am i? dont use blind hatred and ignorance to spew filthy stuff
[/quote]

Before you said :

[quote=Muslim]]
haha i love it when people bring up 9/11 to justify their hatred.
were you there in ny in 9/11? did you see people jump out of buildings or seen the buildings collapse? do you know anyone that got killed?
no? then dont use that excuse.
and for your info, i have. thank you and have a good day.
[/quote]

Are muslims human?.. :confused:


#13

[quote=Cyber Knight]Before you said :

Are muslims human?.. :confused:
[/quote]

i still have no idea what you are trying to infer.


#14

[quote=Muslim]haha i love it when people bring up 9/11 to justify their hatred.
were you there in ny in 9/11? did you see people jump out of buildings or seen the buildings collapse? do you know anyone that got killed?
no? then dont use that excuse.
and for your info, i have. thank you and have a good day.
[/quote]

How very informative that you would use 9/11 so cavalierly. Actually, I have over a thousand years of history to back me up. I can invoke Poitiers/Tours, Jerusalem, Valencia, Acre, Constantinople…as examples. Shall I go on? Hatred? No, sir! Firm conviction and you make the very same mistake that Japan did in 1941. I say again, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. You have awoken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve.


#15

[quote=brotherhrolf]How very informative that you would use 9/11 so cavalierly. Actually, I have over a thousand years of history to back me up. I can invoke Poitiers/Tours, Jerusalem, Valencia, Acre, Constantinople…as examples. Shall I go on? Hatred? No, sir! Firm conviction and you make the very same mistake that Japan did in 1941. I say again, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. You have awoken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve.
[/quote]

yeah since I am a country and I decided to declar war on America. use better analogy next time, ok?


#16

[quote=brotherhrolf]sleeping giant
[/quote]

Dear brotherhrolf:

Say, if that ‘sleeping giant’ was happened to be Jesus Christ and his ministry, what he would have done or how he would have responded?

(Answer the question in the light of your Church’s official traditions/teachings/interpretation of her Bible.)



#17

[quote=Muslim]i still have no idea what you are trying to infer.
[/quote]

If you are human then you would have conscience to see the victims. Not only 9/11, beslan, bali, spain, london, paris, iraq, iran, afghanistan, pakistan, etc etc. :confused:


#18

[quote=brotherhrolf]How very informative that you would use 9/11 so cavalierly. Actually, I have over a thousand years of history to back me up. I can invoke Poitiers/Tours, Jerusalem, Valencia, Acre, Constantinople…as examples. Shall I go on? Hatred? No, sir! Firm conviction and you make the very same mistake that Japan did in 1941. I say again, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. You have awoken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve.
[/quote]

I can go more than a thousand years back to tell you what the church has done. Constantinople,Skythopolis,Anticoch. The Basque people, Goa, The Crusades. But this is besides the point. It is impossible to tell whether or not these events happened for a political reason or a religious one.

I believe you have fim conviction as well, maybe it is hypocritical.


#19

I know my enemy and resolve to resist him with firm conviction. Blind hatred can result in not thinking clearly - a grave strategic and tactical error. The enormity of 9/11 galvanized the American people and the sight of all those “peaceful” muslims dancing in the streets had as much emotional impact for me as the sight of our fleet sunk or in flames at Pearl Harbor did for my parents generation.

I think Jesus would recognize the hand of Satan in the actions of 9/11. God, as you will recall, hurled Satan out of heaven through the use of St. Michael and his army of angels. What? Were you honestly expecting me to say we should just turn the other cheek and allow your peaceful friends to perhaps nuke an American city? Christ didn’t tell us to be stupid sheep and allow ourselves to be slaughtered. There is, after all, the concept of a just war.


#20

There is, after all, the concept of a just war.

Exactly. And what I want to know is, where in the Catholic doctrine of Just War does cestusdei find justification for speaking, as a Priest, in favor of using nuclear weapons on muslims in response to terrorism?


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