When I’m thinking better of the RC, something like this comes through and it’s one of the things that simply should not be.
But really there are no innocent parties in what used to be called Yugoslavia. Catholics, Orthodox, and Muslims have all been slaughtering the other groups for centuries there.
No communion should be measured by the actions of some members. The only church that always acts in keeping with God’s will is the Church Triumphant.
The way I see it is that there is evidence one way and evidence the other way.
One advantage that the Catholic Church has here is access to people who actually knew the Cardinal, so the Church may well have information which others do not have.
It is always difficult to sort through competing claims like this, but good to think the best of people rather than the worst. Can certain things be thought of one way or the other? We try, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to think the way of the person’s being better.
This website offers certain evidence and conclusions; you might consider looking into other sources as well, to see what the Catholic Church might be using as evidence.
All I will say thus far this evening as I am tired and not feeling to great is that I have commented before that this issue was liable to cause great tension between Catholics and Orthodox.
It’s part of the Sacraments.
That’s a bit glib when talking about an extermination camp. I know although I try to do I have my own issues with the British due to my family been turfed out on the road during my countries war of independence and their home burnt down and that was 90 or so years ago.
Did you know St Thomas More supervised the execution of some convicted criminals? Killing isn’t a sin. Some of the reasons behind them are.
As I said I’m pretty tired tonight and this is a highly emotive topic but that is a highly inapt comparison. I suggest all Catholic read up on at least the basics of the situation before weighing in on this issue.
=MommaduckofMany;11710599]When I’m thinking better of the RC, something like this comes through and it’s one of the things that simply should not be.
May I make two points please:
- here is a site that contradicts your post details.
- I share this because the process for Canonization within the RCC is exhaustive;and ends with God’s direct intervention and affirmation through TWo Miracles which are independently affirmed.
So while I sincerely appreciate your post and the pain you seem to feel; I am not at all SURE the facts are entirely as this site proclaims:shrug:
God Bless you,
Grey Carter? Doesn’t seem he has anything good to say about the West, USA or Catholics. Seems those are his biggest obstacles and concerns in his vision of the Kingdom come.
I have long had an eye out for a comprehensive, objective (as possible and thorough account of the entire Croatia/Ustase/Pavelic history in WWII, with all players and hangers-on.
On-line sectarianism/advocacy/denunciation doesn’t cut it, either direction, for me.
I have to say the tone of the site in the OP’s link is not too great and I side with you here as I have seen the Ustaste used to show the overal wickedness of we Catholics many a time and conversely I have seen groups like the Iron Legion used to show the same for the Orthodox. I think it is nigh impossilble to write an objective history of this period. That said the comments heated and unpleasant at the OP’s link as they are should demonstrate just how much emotion this subject stirs up.
As to finding objectivity, that’s why I tend to buy everything on a subject in which I am genuinely interested, pro or con. Looking at stuff from all possible angles can show it in 3 dimensions.
Takes time and discernment.
He is clearly venerated in the RC Church- High School named after him in New York
likely much more to this than in the one article-Some of the Croats sided with the Nazis many did not-the history of the Balkans is thousands of years old and Religion has certainly been a force of division rather than unity there
If you will allow me to take a tangent, I promise it will come back to your point.
We all, at times, doubt God. Even the Blessed Mother Teresa had periods of significant doubts. Why does God allow such things as the holocaust? Why would God allow cancer to grow in a young child?? How could a good and just God, one who is all powerful, allow such pain, and sometimes blatantly evil, to exist?
The same questions can also be asked of His Church. How could His Church have undertaken some of the atrocities attributed to it? The Spanish Inquisition? The apparent collusion between His Church and the Nazis? The pedophilia?
I don’t know the answer to these questions, and I certainly will not speak for God…but I will share with you a personal story that allows me to love God, and His Church, despite these questions.
I grew up knowing God, but not having a good relationship with him. Then, about 16 1/2 years ago, I experienced something (a disaster with a large loss of life, including many children) that brought those types of questions front and center, and for a long time I was “mad” at God for allowing such things. That anger led me toward a great deal of sin, and personal pain, over the next dozen years. Part of my personal “coming back to God” journey was finding an answer to such questions. I’m not going to even suggest that this IS why God, or his church, allows such things to happen, but just a possibility.
Maybe God lets bad things happen to good people so that other people will find their way back to him?
There were hundreds of families who were devastated by the disaster I experienced. I now wonder how many of them took their pain to the alter and, as a result, grew closer to God.
How does all of this pertain to your point? Well, maybe it doesn’t, but then again, maybe God allowed such horrible things to happen so that people would have a reason to go to Him.
Are you objective enough to see the other side of the story? Or something is already so ingrained in your whole being that it does not matter if evidence is shown that is contrary or refutes the claims in the link you provided?
Have you heard also of what happened to Pope Pius xII?
Forget about the “inapt” comparison. It’s a shame you failed to see the point I was making…
Hi MommaduckofMany. Can you elaborate a bit? I know that Stepianac was convicted by a Yugoslav court, but my understanding is that the trial was conducted in a highly suspicious manner, so I don’t think we can trust its verdict.
It was a sincere question, for those that wondered. I asked it on my FB page and limited commentators to Catholic and Orthodox only, because I did NOT want people using it merely to slam or rabbit trail. I finally deleted after a bit of conversation.
Basically, it came down to (or seems to come down to) this man being blamed more for the fact that he was in a role of authority during this and this happened UNDER him. However, whether he had direct part, who knows. There are good and bad posted about him. My issue was, if this man was directly involved with forced conversions and slaughter of common Orthodox, then why the heck cannonise him? Any “miracles” from his body would have to be deemed demonic as his actions throughout life were evil. But, the conversation boiled down to the fact that we do not specifically know (or had enough information for the discussion). I did have a friend that grew up Greek in Albania and she recommended the book Decameron…having to hide her ethnicity growing up and not being able to even hint an interest in the Church (Orthodox), this is all closer to home for her.
So, basically, the answer came down to “unresolved” either direction.
My question was asked though because this was the first I’d heard of it and I was a bit shocked. There are priests that had helped save lives (of those not of their faith) and those should be the ones remembered.