Could Catholicism be scientifically proven with a falsifiable test?


#1

Given that Catholics believe in transubstantiation, that is to say that the bread and wine take on the form of the body and blood of Jesus after being blessed. Surely then if there is a change in form it would be detectable in some way in lab conditions with appropriate blinding?

For me that would at least prove that A) a god exists and B) the Catholic/Orthodox interpretation is, at least in part, correct.


#2

There are accounts of Eucharistic miracles that have undergone analysis:

https://www.catholicjournal.us/2013/06/05/truly-the-body-and-blood-of-christ/

This was just from a quick search, there’s a lot more out there (and of course refutations, too.)

Remember too that Catholics believe that the accidents of bread remain. The Body of Christ will look like bread, taste like bread, digest like bread. Observation under those conditions will yield findings of - bread. It really is a leap of faith.


#3

The accidents of bread and wine remain, the transubstantiation is hidden. Christ asks us to take this on faith, recognizing that it is a “hard teaching.”

Gospel of John, Chapter 6:

52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”


#4

Apart from certain unplanned events held to be miraculous, the Church’s teaching of transubstantation would not produce anything detectable in lab conditions. The teaching is that the “species” of bread and wine become the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ while remaining under the appearance of bread and wine. Appearance here doesn’t just mean “to our literal eyes,” but refers to all things detectable or physically perceptible about it, including its chemical composition.

We could get into a philosophical discussion about the quantitative versus the qualitative aspects of reality, but that’s it’s own topic.

The miracle Catholicism is rooted in is the Resurrection. That was a physical, real event. It is so far into the past now that we can’t exactly do falsifiable tests regarding it.


#5

Body Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus. Not quite after being Blessed. A bit more too it then that. Read up on Epiclesis.

If you want to know God, start praying and discerning this. God is not provable in a lab.


#6

You have mis-defined transubstantiation. The bread and wine do not take on the form of the Body and Blood of Jesus. The form remains bread and wine. Rather, they take on the substance of Jesus. Otherwise, the term would be “transformation”, not “transubstantiation.”

So scientific analysis of the consecrated species will always show that the form is still bread and wine (except in cases of Eucharistic miracles—which are outside the norm). That’s what the whole concept of transubstantiation means.


#7

Inquisitor, No offense, but isn’t your question a little like “how many angels can fit on the head of a pin” As a catholic man, I understand that what I believe in my relation to God and the Catholic church can not be proven empirically or scientifically in any manner. No one can “prove” or “disprove” the existence of God. No one can prove scientifically the existence of Jesus Christ. Then again the same goes for George Washington, Jefferson and all.

Charitably, I don’t think you are either baiting or trolling. But if you are truly an atheist, there really can’t be any substantive conversation because there would need to be an empirical starting point. Belief is God is that starting point. Our trying to have a conversation regarding matters of Catholic faith would be akin to trying to explain quantum physics, in Swedish, in the barrios of Mexico City.

Now if you want to discuss the possibility of the Steelers winning the Super Bowl, I’m all for it.

Shalom


#8

Frankly, I don’t much care either way. I believe it because it bears all the hallmarks of divinity. God Bless!


#9

In transubstantiation, it is the substance of Jesus that replaces the substance of bread and wine, and therefore, the host and the contents of the chalice become Jesus.

Do you know of any lab tests that can detect ‘substance’ (in its philosophical meaning)? :wink:


#10

Only if the science community accepts the rejection or acceptance of the hypothesis–irregardless of the test.


#11

Scientists aren’t exceptional at exposing frauds.


#12

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