Could I be a Priest with these views?


#1

Could I be a priest if I don’t agree with the celibacy rule that was made at the second lateran council? That is, I will follow celibacy out of obedience and because I have taken the vows but I don’t agree with mandatory celibacy. My reasoning following the logic of the east which says celibacy is a higher state than marriage, but it is not a pre-requisite for ordination. Also considering all the married popes. Finally, the Holy Father’s recent welcoming of married Anglican clergy. Furthermore, this may put me in an unusual box because I believe the latin mass is a more liturgically and traditionally pure mass than the OF and I would only want to say the EF.


#2

[quote="notredame_999, post:1, topic:210901"]
Could I be a priest if I don't agree with the celibacy rule that was made at the second lateran council? That is, I will follow celibacy out of obedience and because I have taken the vows but I don't agree with mandatory celibacy. My reasoning following the logic of the east which says celibacy is a higher state than marriage, but it is not a pre-requisite for ordination. Also considering all the married popes. Finally, the Holy Father's recent welcoming of married Anglican clergy. Furthermore, this may put me in an unusual box because I believe the latin mass is a more liturgically and traditionally pure mass than the OF and I would only want to say the EF.

[/quote]

At the risk of sounding rude, did you mean to say the second "vatican" council? If you did, how did the rules of priestly celibacy change? If you want to be married, why do you want to be a priest? I am just curious, no disrespect intended.

Gary


#3

no, for the reason that with these views you would not be asking for the charism of celibacy which is necessary to the vocation of the priesthood as it exists today in our Church. That would be like going into marriage disagreeing with the requirement for fidelity, but intending to be faithful merely out of obedience, not out of love and not asking for that charism of the sacrament.


#4

That’s not a good analogy. The requirement of fidelity in marriage is absolute and can not change. The requirement of priestly celibacy could change.


#5

No he has the name of the Council right. There have been several ecumenical Councils throughout history. Looks like you need a Church History textbook.

To the OP, this is a hard one… seems to me it’s kind of like married Catholics who aren’t really convinced of the validity of all the Church’s sexual laws, but yet out of obedience submit to them. The knee-jerk reaction is to say, “No, you shouldn’t be a priest.” But if you are willing to submit yourself in obedience to the Church and “follow the rules” as it were, it seems to me that you might be a good priest, with a lot of compassion for those who struggle to understand but still remain faithful Catholics. :cool:


#6

it is a dicipline not a dogma sir, lets say you become pope, you could change it i believe


#7

[quote="Lapey, post:2, topic:210901"]
At the risk of sounding rude, did you mean to say the second "vatican" council? If you did, how did the rules of priestly celibacy change? If you want to be married, why do you want to be a priest? I am just curious, no disrespect intended.

Gary

[/quote]

he meant what he said, you should educate yourself on the church eccumenical councils...

  1. Second Council of the Lateran (1139) reaffirmed Lateran I and addressed clerical discipline (dress, marriages).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecumenical_Council


#8

you people have to remember this one fact, its not so much that he wants to be a priest, but that God is calling him to the priesthood, and these are legitimate questions to ask, he may know God is calling him to the priesthood, but still he has a normal view of marrige, for me it was like this, at first when i realized that God was calling, i said “i will do it out of obedience, but if i could i would get married and be a priest too” but now with prayer i have accepted that to be a priest i cannot marry, and now i look at that as a gift and i love the fact that in about 10-15 years (after college and seminary) i will have the whole church as my family.


#9

How would your *disagreement *manifest? By acknowledging and teaching people facts as those below?

I don’t know how you could be faulted for acknowledging these facts. Heck, it was a celibate Latin Rite priest faculty member who taught me that celibacy is not a requirement for presbyteral ordination. :shrug:

Or would your *disagreement *manifest by advocating for the relaxation of the current discipline? Do you think that, should the current discipline become relaxed, you would be allowed to pursue marriage, even after you will have made a vow of celibacy and become ordained? :hmmm:

tee


#10

[quote="Lapey, post:2, topic:210901"]
At the risk of sounding rude, did you mean to say the second "vatican" council? If you did, how did the rules of priestly celibacy change? If you want to be married, why do you want to be a priest? I am just curious, no disrespect intended.

Gary

[/quote]

Why do I want both? What devout Catholic man doesn't want both? On one hand you have a beautiful wife, children, grandchildren, vacations, being able to experience the marital act. On the other hand one is able to say the holy sacrifice of the mass every day, teach catechism, deliver strong sermons, study the saints, save souls from hell, baptize, give absolution, serve the church with complete devotion and help save them from this culture of death. Both require sacrifice. Marriage requires fidelity to spouse even in times of difficulty, guidance to children in all of their imperfections, faith in divine providence to resist artificial birth control, strong work ethic to support the family financially. Priesthood requires daily prayer, constant devotion, being able to deal with loneliness from the lack of a wife or family, and resisting fornication in any form for the rest of your life. This is how I view it right now.


#11

No, it’s a good analogy. Even if the discipline of priestly celibacy was to change, it would only mean that married men could be ordained to the priesthood more freely. It would not mean that priests could marry after ordination. So the analogy holds.


#12

I doubt you would make it through seminary holding those views. Certainly you should not make a promise of celibacy while disagreeing with it.


#13

I see no logical reason why someone can’t promise faithfully to keep to a discipline even if they don’t like it or agree with it.

When I went through the seminary acceptance process, I was asked what I thought of clerical celibacy. I was totally honest and said I would have no objection to married clergy. The people investigating me (for psychological and spiritual maturity, theological ‘soundness’, etc) seemed to have no problem with that since I said that I would also have no difficulty submitting to the requirement for celibacy. Becoming a priest is far more important to me than any intellectual difficulty I might have personally about the requirement for celibate priests.

I would imagine that the more traditionalist seminaries like FSSP would be less accommodating on this score though. It’s going to be awkward for you, ‘notredame_999’, if you try to be accepted for that Latin-only route under these circumstances, so if I were you, I’d consider carefully how my views on celibacy and ‘authenticity’ of the Mass coincide… You might well have to make a compromise along the line…


#14

[quote="CDNowak, post:12, topic:210901"]
I doubt you would make it through seminary holding those views. Certainly you should not make a promise of celibacy while disagreeing with it.

[/quote]

Let me clarify. I am not objecting to a promise of celibacy once I have made it, I am objecting to the Latin-Rite practice of barring married men to the priesthood (with rare exceptions like the recent Anglican clergy). Another question I have is what are my chances of ordination if I believe the third secret of Fatima involved the Vatican II? What are my chances if I believe in the theories of masonic infiltration written by Malachi Martin?


#15

the analogy holds in that both celibacy and fidelity are the charisms of their respective sacraments, and no one who does not want or believe in the charism should ask for the sacrament.


#16

I think the events such as Fatima, Lourdes, etc, are down to the individual to accept or deny as according to their own conscience, although it would be very unusual for a priest to completely deny such things.

I have no idea what the Masonic thing is all about, and it's far too late in the day in the UK for me to be going delving into it so I'll pass on that one.

I will say though that you do seem to have quite a lot of disagreements going on and that you're seemingly quite set in them. I think any Vocations Director would probably be put off by such overtly political opinions and that perhaps you need to cultivate substantially more openness to the arguments about the things you disagree with, apparently quite vehemently. It certainly wouldn't do to go into a seminary with a closed mind, since you'd be expected to spend 6 years filling up an open mind with new things, not rejecting things before you even start.


#17

[quote="DexUK, post:16, topic:210901"]
I will say though that you do seem to have quite a lot of disagreements going on and that you're seemingly quite set in them. I think any Vocations Director would probably be put off by such overtly political opinions and that perhaps you need to cultivate substantially more openness to the arguments about the things you disagree with, apparently quite vehemently. It certainly wouldn't do to go into a seminary with a closed mind, since you'd be expected to spend 6 years filling up an open mind with new things, not rejecting things before you even start.

[/quote]

Well said!:thumbsup:

Given the OP's views, I have a hard time believing that God could be calling him to the priesthood...


#18

The problem is eventually one has to reconcile their personal views with those of the Church. If a priest cannot it generally comes out in his teaching (like any number of dissident priests) or in his behavior (a recurring issue): either course causes scandal. One of the strongest things stressed in the year I was at seminary was the importance of not merely taking celibacy because it is part of the package, but actually embracing it for its own sake.

In addition, I don’t think that if one goes into seminary with mental reservations that he will last six years, either the reservations will break, he will decide he doesn’t belong there, or the seminary will ask him to take some time apart.

I have known a number of peer discerning who were willing to give full ascent, except for that one pet thing. They didn’t make it into Theology, most left off of their own accord.

I suggest you find a good spiritual director to help you sort these issues out before applying to a diocese or order.


#19

While it could change that change would only effect those who are going to be ordained after the change as once a man is ordained he can not marry.


#20

I’m reminded of what my parish priest once told me. He said that there are aspects of being a Catholic priest that are difficult. He said that there are things he wish would change or just have been different. However, he would never preach about his concerns or worries about Church doctrine because he has taken a vow of obedience. Furthermore, when he preaches he understands that he is speaking from a position of authority as a representative of the Catholic Church and so he must stay true to the Church’s teachings. He prays for the strength to faithfully follow the Church’s teachings and reconcile his wants and desires with the Church.


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