Could i be ordained if I agree with the Fatima Challenge?


#1

Could I be ordained to the priesthood or even accepted to a seminary if I agree with Fr. Nicholas Grunner and his Fatima Challenge? I mean I just get so fired up watching the fatima challege videos online and I have so much desire to save souls from hell, maybe even my own in the process. The Fatima Challenge Conference that recently took place believes the consecration of Russia has not taken place and needs to be. Would that be a problem? Im only saying this because if a vocation director or rector asked me why I wanted to be a priest, I would say to save souls from hell. I would also tell him that I do not necessarily agree with the latin discipline of mandatory celibacy for the secular priesthood but I am willing to subject myself to it anyway if thats what it takes. thank you.


#2

On August 10, 2004, the apostlic nuncio at the time, Archbishop Gabriel Montalvo Higuera specifically stated that Gruner is “not a priest in good standing with the Roman Catholic Church.” I don’t know exactly what that means, but it doesn’t sound good. Therefore, if you’re asking whether or not you’d be permitted to become a priest despite believing the same thing that Father Gruner (not in good standing) believes… I would personally first submit to the Church on the matter and accept her authority as you say that you are willing to do when it comes to celibacy and the priesthood.


#3

I would wonder why you would WANT to be ordained when you believe the Church lies to us.


#4

I feel you should be in compliance with the Church and set the example.


#5

How can you agree with a “challenge”? I have never heard of this “Fatima Challenge”, but whatever it is, it is only a “challenge”, not a dogmatic truth. What exactly do you agree with?


#6

that the consecration of russia never took place, and there is a certain element in the vatican which has not fully disclosed the third secret.


#7

[quote="notredame_999, post:6, topic:212638"]
that the consecration of russia never took place, and there is a certain element in the vatican which has not fully disclosed the third secret.

[/quote]

Thanks for the answer. :)

I don't agree with you about these issues, but your parish priest, or diocesan vocations director would be the best person to advise you about a possible vocation.

When I discussed a possible vocation with my priest, he was mostly interested in how much I wanted to serve people. This desire isn't obvious in your post - but that doesn't mean it's not there.

~ Edmundus


#8

[quote="Edmundus1581, post:7, topic:212638"]
Thanks for the answer. :)

I don't agree with you about these issues, but your parish priest, or diocesan vocations director would be the best person to advise you about a possible vocation.

When I discussed a possible vocation with my priest, he was mostly interested in how much I wanted to serve people. This desire isn't obvious in your post - but that doesn't mean it's not there.

~ Edmundus

[/quote]

In my opinion thats whats wrong with the church today. Yes feeding the poor, visiting those in prison, etc. is important...very important in fact its necessary for our salvation. However, isn't adminitering the sacraments more important from a priesthood persepctive? My main motivation in becoming a priest is saving souls.


#9

If I were you, I would stop reading those Fatima challenge stuffs whatever they may be. When I visited their site accidentally, I thought they were genuine but when I found how they are condemning popes; John Paul II, Benedict XVI and saints like Josemaria escriva etc, I felt something growing within me which was "very bad feeling" I prayed. Not long ago than I realized how the said site like many other are unorthodoxy, fake (whatever you may call it) then I refrained from visiting it.

Probably you should consider this


#10

[quote="densline, post:9, topic:212638"]
If I were you, I would stop reading those Fatima challenge stuffs whatever they may be. When I visited their site accidentally, I thought they were genuine but when I found how they are condemning popes; John Paul II, Benedict XVI and saints like Josemaria escriva etc, I felt something growing within me which was "very bad feeling" I prayed. Not long ago than I realized how the said site like many other are unorthodoxy, fake (whatever you may call it) then I refrained from visiting it.

Probably you should consider this

[/quote]

Just out of curiosity what did they have to say about St. Josemaria Escrivia? He is my probably my favorite saint.


#11

Story time!

Fr. Gruner was originally a seminarian in an Ontario diocese (I can’t remember which one now, Niagara or Kingston rings a bell). At the end of his studies, for one reason or another his bishop decided not to ordain him, which is within the bishop’s power, ordination is not guaranteed even after graduating from seminary. Anyways, Gruner then went to another diocese (again, Niagara or Kingston possibly) and the bishop there also declined.

Next step, Gruner ended up somehow getting ordained by a bishop in Italy, for a diocese in Italy. Fr. Gruner then skipped town and ended up back in Canada, without the permission of his ordinary (bishop) in Italy or any bishop in Canada.

What about the bishop in Italy? Last I heard, the Vatican ordered Fr. Gruner to go back to his diocese in Italy, but Fr. Gruner has no intention of going back. I believe there was an attempt to get a bishop in Canada to take him, but that has not happened (it will probably happen about never).

To make a long story short, Fr. Gruner is currently not incardinated in any diocese in the world (I heard this from a canon lawyer. Who happened to specialize in ecclesiastical law). That’s a problem, because priests are not actually allowed to not be incardinated. The only time a priest is excardinated (released) is when he’s being immediately incardinated in another diocese. Priests are not suppose to be without an ordinary, which Fr. Gruner currently is. Practically and canonically, this means that Fr. Gruner does not possesses any faculties. He cannot validly (or licitly) hear confessions (except case of emergencies and the like) or witness a marriage or licitly celebrate the Mass. It’s pretty much disobedience piled upon disobedience.


#12

[quote="curlycool89, post:11, topic:212638"]
Story time!

Fr. Gruner was originally a seminarian in an Ontario diocese (I can't remember which one now, Niagara or Kingston rings a bell). At the end of his studies, for one reason or another his bishop decided not to ordain him, which is within the bishop's power, ordination is not guaranteed even after graduating from seminary. Anyways, Gruner then went to another diocese (again, Niagara or Kingston possibly) and the bishop there also declined.

Next step, Gruner ended up somehow getting ordained by a bishop in Italy, for a diocese in Italy. Fr. Gruner then skipped town and ended up back in Canada, without the permission of his ordinary (bishop) in Italy or any bishop in Canada.

What about the bishop in Italy? Last I heard, the Vatican ordered Fr. Gruner to go back to his diocese in Italy, but Fr. Gruner has no intention of going back. I believe there was an attempt to get a bishop in Canada to take him, but that has not happened (it will probably happen about never).

To make a long story short, Fr. Gruner is currently not incardinated in any diocese in the world (I heard this from a canon lawyer. Who happened to specialize in ecclesiastical law). That's a problem, because priests are not actually allowed to not be incardinated. The only time a priest is excardinated (released) is when he's being immediately incardinated in another diocese. Priests are not suppose to be without an ordinary, which Fr. Gruner currently is. Practically and canonically, this means that Fr. Gruner does not possesses any faculties. He cannot validly (or licitly) hear confessions (except case of emergencies and the like) or witness a marriage or licitly celebrate the Mass. It's pretty much disobedience piled upon disobedience.

[/quote]

I still like him. He seems pretty sincere and rational to me. Even if he is wrong about the whole thing, what is the harm with consecrating russia a second time with all the bishops present? Because it what offend the russian orthodox and diminish the spirit of ecumenism? From everything I have read, Russia has not converted. In fact muslims, buddhists, and jews receive more state recognition than the catholic church in russia.


#13

Well, I can respect your opinion on the whole Fr. Gruner issue. However, I don’t agree with Fr. Gruner or his opinions on the matter. Perhaps, until and unless you can accept the authority of the Church and her Bishops, it might be more prudent to wait before entering seminary. I respect your desire to save souls, however; a priest should be in communion with the Church and support the magisterium. The fact that you choose to believe Fr. Gruner rather than the Church, may suggest that you are not ready to submit to Church authroity. I mean nothing derogatory when I say this. I know that I could never be ordained as a priest myself because I lack many of the gifts needed. However, I recognize this and accept it. God bless.


#14

Being a Priest means you are married to a church but if you don’t trust it, it sounds rather absurd to even think of it.

So please talk to a priest and pray to the holy spirit, otherwise you may enter but after decades we will produce another Fr Gruner or the current scandals we have in the church.

I will pray for you.

Densy


#15

I'm far from being a Vocations Director, but I'll submit to you that the "Fatima Challenge" is not, nor should it be, a determiner in discerning a Vocation to the Priesthood. Holy Church has determined that the events at Fatima are "worthy of belief". That falls short of a Dogma such as the Immaculate Conception, or the Assumption of Mary.

Essentially, belief in the events of Fatima are optional, for want of a better term. My personal belief, for what it's worth, is that the events did indeed take place. However, your belief in Fatima should not be the central consideration in your possible discernment with regard to the Priesthood.

I really feel, no, I urge you to speak to a Priest in whom you have confidence. Take him into your confidence, and attempt to get his thoughts with respect to your concerns. Ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, and help. Don't be afraid to ask Our Blessed Lady to help you as well.


#16

[quote="PhilipCal, post:15, topic:212638"]
I'm far from being a Vocations Director, but I'll submit to you that the "Fatima Challenge" is not, nor should it be, a determiner in discerning a Vocation to the Priesthood. Holy Church has determined that the events at Fatima are "worthy of belief". That falls short of a Dogma such as the Immaculate Conception, or the Assumption of Mary.

Essentially, belief in the events of Fatima are optional, for want of a better term. My personal belief, for what it's worth, is that the events did indeed take place. However, your belief in Fatima should not be the central consideration in your possible discernment with regard to the Priesthood.

I really feel, no, I urge you to speak to a Priest in whom you have confidence. Take him into your confidence, and attempt to get his thoughts with respect to your concerns. Ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, and help. Don't be afraid to ask Our Blessed Lady to help you as well.

[/quote]

But what could be a detriment to a vocation and a red flag for any vocations director is support of a suspended priest and his organization.


#17

[quote="ByzCath, post:16, topic:212638"]
But what could be a detriment to a vocation and a red flag for any vocations director is support of a suspended priest and his organization.

[/quote]

That said; any temporary detriment such as supporting a suspended priest is by no means a permenant obstacle to a vocation; so it is certainly best that "notredame_999" talks to traditional and "good standing" Catholic people; such as many Vocations Directors to uncover any issues so as that they may be dealt with; corrected or reflected upon.

It would be good to remember that even St. Augustine was persuaded by a false belief; Manichaeism;- so notredame_999 -- even if it poses an obstacle at present to pursuing a Vocation; it seems clear that your reasons for wanting to pursue a vocation are good --

I think you should talk to a Priest; or perhaps the Vocations Director to unveil if this constitutes a significant obstacle; or if it is just that you have invested good faith in a bad ideology.

:thumbsup:


#18

I would also suggest that, if you are discerning a vocation to the priesthood and/or religious life, you get a good spiritual director.


#19

Well, I guess if you count disobeying the Vatican as being rational…


#20

In my view Russia has converted, there was a mass return to the churches once Communism fell, they have been rebuilding the churches, the church has an official place in society and government now. Umm, to the Orthodox church that is, but it is an extraordinary conversion and return to Christianity.

Getting back to the question though. Fatima is still in the realm of ‘private revelation’, so…

I share your enthusiasm to help the souls in Purgatory but I have recently started to concentrate on the conversion of sinners and praying for the dying (as well) as my major ‘intentions’- Lets get God to help them before they get to Hell or Purgatory.


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