Could i be ordained if I agree with the Fatima Challenge?

ByzCath’s post is right on the mark. That’s why I made the comments I did concerning Fatima. That’s why I suggested/urged our inquirer to seek counsel of a Priest he trusts. I would be very careful of subscribing to the theories (for want of a better word) of any Priest not in good standing with the Church. .

It appears that you people are misinformed about father Nicholas Grunner. He is a priest in good standing with the church just take your time and go through their website you will be glad you did. I am an ardent follower of the the Fatima Apostolate. Don’t accuse someone falsely and ignorantly also.:slight_smile: if you have any doubt email them. to clear your doubt. and for your information do not be deceived because Russia has not been consecrated. Even the pope talked about the third secret being unfolding gradually during his visit to Fatima few months back.

Fr Gruner is most certanly not in good standing with the Church. He has been suspended. He was ordered by his bishop to return to Italy and he has refused. He has been ordered to end his Fatima organization and he has refused. He has no faculties to celebrate the Mass or any of the Sacraments.

Here is the Declaration on Suspension from the Congregation for the Clergy in the Vatican.

My information is from a priest with a doctorate in canon law with a specialization in ecclesiastical law. Fr. Grunner is not incardinated in any diocese, which means that he is at the very least very much illicitly practicing, and his minitry is being done without the permission of the Diocese of St. Catherines.

According to Gruner himself, he’s “incardinated” in Hyderabad, India and has “permission” to continue his ministry. Only someone complete ignorant would believe such a tale. Nor is there even something as simple as a letter to confirm it.

Furthermore, even if Fr. Gruner was incardinated in India, he has no permission to carry on in Canada because the bishop of India has no authority over Canada. Even religious need the permission of a bishop to enter a diocese and start a ministry. Even if he is incardinated in India, he has no faculties in Canada because a bishop in India cannot grant faculties for a diocese in Canada. Nor can a bishop in India give permission for a ministry in Canada unless it is approved by the bishop of the diocese in Canada. In Fr. Gruner’s case, it is not approved by the diocese of St. Catherines in Ontario, which at the very least means that he is running an illicit ministry. It’s not rocket science, no permission = no ministry, which Fr. Gruner is ignoring.

The Vatican… Oh right, that would be the one overseen by the Supreme Pontiff and Vicar of Christ the Pope.

False. Nice try though. :rolleyes:

So you want to be a priest yet you follow a man who says that Jews slaughter children to their pagan gods (…)? You want to be a priest yet you follow a man who blatantly disobeys he Pope and to an extent, worships OL Fatima? Gruner is no Catholic in good standing and is on a mission to confuse the faithful. He needs our prayers.

Do I see militiant zionism for what it is? Yes I do.


The simple fact that you have asked this question tells me that you should not be ordained…yet.

I assume you’re a very young man. Find a good seminary and go to it (if such is God’s will, as expressed through the advice of the rector). A seminary education will hopefully broaden your ecclesiastical horizons such that this odd fixation on the private revelations at Fatima and their surrounding conspiracy theories will no longer be of compelling interest to you by the time you make it to the priesthood.

Fatima, at any rate, is so utterly in the past-tense of the Church’s experience that it seems just plain odd to me that it should be at the forefront of any Catholic’s mind at this point. More importantly, candidates for the priesthood should hardly be directing their focus, their time, and their zeal in the direction of private revelations. I can’t think of anything less worthwhile.

Put down Gruner and pick up Aquinas.

The miracle of the sun witnessed by 75,000 people was not a private revelation. Specific instructions to consecrate RUSSIA specifically is not a private revelation, but rather a public prophecy. Fatima is the greatest miracle since the resurrection, but it comes with a message from Our Lady. I find it unbelievable that I have not heard one homily on Fatima and what happened there.

And no, its not in the past. Vatican II, the loss of the faith in the west, despicable homosexual priests who raped young boys, negligent bishops, and apostates and even luciferians at the highest levels of the Vatican all are part of the third secret. I will take the words of Fr. Malachi Martin, a trained exorcist and advisor to many popes, over yours. And if these views bar me from admission so be it, but I will be honest about them.

I also think that a lot of these priests who caused so much shame to the church in the form of sexual abuse should be executed.

This statement right here shows that you have a lot more to learn about the Catholic Faith.

Fatima and everything about it falls under the heading of a private revelation and not one bit of it is required to be believed by any Catholic.

As for the advice above, you will not be excepted into any seminary program as a seminarian without a diocese or religious community/order sponsoring you. You could enter into a pre-theology program but before that I would suggest that you get a good spiritual director and learn the basics of the Teachings of the Church.

I also think John Paul II was a man of sincere holiness, but his abilities as an administrator were not extrarodinary. This includes the sexual abuse problem and cover-ups, failure to excommunicate liberal dissidents like Fr. Hans Kung and his minions, position on the death penalty that contradicts 2000 years of tradition, “ecumenism” that included the 1996 prayers at Assisi, receving bitter enemies of the church and atheists like Fidel Castro and Mikail Gorbachev.

All of this was pointed out by Fr. Malachi Martin.

What bothers me the most is the ecumenism. Is it true John Paul II kissed a koran? Is the photo accurate? Say it aint so.


I say this with all due charity: your posts thus far reveal an inordinate focus on the sort of sensational peripheral issues that tend to concern only a small number of Catholics who make their home on the fringe. Furthermore, you’re quoting people like Malachi Martin and Nicholas Gruner as though they were reliable, mainstream sources! Interestingly, too, you mistrust men like Pope John Paul II because of things that people like Malachi Martin have said or written. That is quite telling, in itself.

Unless you join the Society of St. Pius X or some other fringe group that also focuses upon the things you do, you may find being accepted into a mainstream seminary a challenge at this point. I would humbly take whatever advice your vocations director gives you, and callenge yourself to imagine that your own perspective may not be the only one, or even the correct one.

For whatever the advice of a stranger might be worth, I would, if I were you, make an effort to wean myself off of this addiction to sensational fringe issues, and to reaquaint myself with the mainstream of Catholicism without fear or suspicion. The world of the fringe and of conspiracy paranoia is a destructive world in which to live. Get out of it.

Anyways there are a whole lot of hurdles you have to clear before you get anywhere near ordination.

One step at a time. Live in the present moment while working towards the goal.

Alright, howabout this novel approach: rather than trying to be ordained while disagreeing with the Church on the minutiae of its teachings, maybe try to live as a layperson who actually agrees with the Church.

It sounds pretty dull and simple, but you’d be really surprised how few people manage to do this.

Or, perhaps, research why the Church stands firm on these positions, rather than seeking to have our Holy Mother Church abrogate and ignore its principles for the convenience of an individual?

I´m tempted to think that notredame 9999 is part of the mission of Grunner and is trying to test the wind. Kindly forgive me if my assumptions would in anyway be wrong or cause you any harm; that´s not my aim. It´s just that I find it´s not fair on the way people are trying to advise you as you requested but you kinder set a tag off war or smth.

Personally I will unsubscribe this thread and focus to those that people sincerely need help. But I will pray that you have the light you need.

Again, forgive me!



I think what is happening is that I am discovering I have more in common with the SSPX that I thought.

How do you reconcile this with your beliefs on the married priesthood?

I am sure that many, if not most, self-proclaimed traditionalists (SSPX included) would say that the celibate secular priesthood is part of tradition and should not change. I have run into a few who wish to view the celibate secular priesthood as a dogma.

They love to use the language that a “priest is married to the Church” even though such language is found no where in the theology of the priesthood or in the ordination rite itself.

Yes you are right I am in a very tough position. Thats why I asked about St. Patrick’s grandfather.

You really need the help of a spiritual director on this issue of marriage or priesthood (and/or religious life).

I can not understand your delimma at all as I have always known that I was not called to be married, even before I fully entered the Church I knew this. I was baptized Catholic but was not raised in any faith. When I finally returned Home to the Catholic Church this feeling I had was answered for me.

So I am not of much help for you other than to say that God will not Call you to where you can not God and that God works through His Church.

The SSPX doesn’t allow their priest to marry either. Perhaps, and this is simply a suggestion, what you should be realizing is that we shouldn’t be shopping around for a church that conforms to OUR personal desires and wants. We are called to submit to God’s Church, not church-shop or create another one based on our own wants. Humility, obedience and loyalty are in order here. God bless you on your journey.

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