Could Secularism wipe out Catholicism in Europe?


#1

Went to coffee with a liberal friend of mine today and this was discussed. She feels that post-Christian Europe has finally shaken off "The shackles" and freed itself. With such statistics as low as 15% believing in god in Norway, and 20-30% in France. What do you think is there a chance of the near total an annihilation of Christianity in Western Europe?


#2

[quote="Codix105, post:1, topic:309600"]
Went to coffee with a liberal friend of mine today and this was discussed. She feels that post-Christian Europe has finally shaken off "The shackles" and freed itself. With such statistics as low as 15% believing in god in Norway, and 20-30% in France. What do you think is there a chance of the near total an annihilation of Christianity in Western Europe?

[/quote]

I hope not! What are they going to do with all those beautiful churches?!

More seriously, I guess it depends on your definition of "near total annihilation".


#3

Well, secularism promises comfort, it is very easy to fall in this "trap". Especially when we, people of Europe, have quite high standards of living. On one hand, I believe that it is possible, that this culture will ultimately prevail in Europe, yet, it will also destroy it. Life is about philosophy and when philosophy is bad, life will, eventually, get bad.

I am not saying, that atheists or agnostics are bad people, don't get me wrong, I am very realistic in this... all I'm saying is, that their lifes are empty, when they delete the spiritual part. What is worse, as for example in the Czech republic, God was replaced by money and by free "spirituality" (wicca, New Age, esotherics,...). I like this song about the Devil, that calls this kind of "spirituality" "emotional alchemy". Very precise, unfortunately.

So, the Europe is definately post-christian, but as our Lord, the Church is also dying AND rising.


#4

[quote="Codix105, post:1, topic:309600"]
Went to coffee with a liberal friend of mine today and this was discussed. She feels that post-Christian Europe has finally shaken off "The shackles" and freed itself. With such statistics as low as 15% believing in god in Norway, and 20-30% in France. What do you think is there a chance of the near total an annihilation of Christianity in Western Europe?

[/quote]

As long as the Church exists,there is hope.


#5

[quote="Codix105, post:1, topic:309600"]
Went to coffee with a liberal friend of mine today and this was discussed. She feels that post-Christian Europe has finally shaken off "The shackles" and freed itself. With such statistics as low as 15% believing in god in Norway, and 20-30% in France. What do you think is there a chance of the near total an annihilation of Christianity in Western Europe?

[/quote]

Here is a really good explanation on MP3 of the various philosophical ideas which contribute to our current ways of thinking. Altho the talks are given by a Catholic in a Catholic venue, I think anyone can learn a lot from them, esp those who have noticed contradictions in one's own or society's way of thinking.


#6

It will certainly try. And for a while it will appear to have done so.

And then the Church will bite back.


#7

this is sort of a funny post that is going here, in that the US is in the same boat for turning to alow the US to be a Godless civilization, devoid of Gods will and guidance. and the reflection that many Catholics fleed europe to escape this Godlessness that grips Europe, the people of the US have now made the US the same. that which your fore fathers fleed from, the US has now been made.

and, the biggest glaring example, is the current government, obamma and his call for, socialism, totally against the Church, and what should be tolerated.

the church will prevail for ever people, for the church isnt soo much a structure, but a Truth of what God calls all to, in the Covenant that Jesus set out and gave to all men..
Not educating, and standup and being that Covenant, is failure..

For this Covenant and what it calls for, brings Harmony, Clairty, and Intergrity, to a civilization, for its a Civilzation, Under God...

The Churchs were built in Europe based on this Truth, that has now been discounted away, for man has came to judge he is smarter than God, a huge ignorance and superstion.. and uneducated, ignorance, that you people are no exception, to having fell into.. but, we still have our sense of humor, that is good.


#8

[quote="Codix105, post:1, topic:309600"]
Went to coffee with a liberal friend of mine today and this was discussed. She feels that post-Christian Europe has finally shaken off "The shackles" and freed itself. With such statistics as low as 15% believing in god in Norway, and 20-30% in France. What do you think is there a chance of the near total an annihilation of Christianity in Western Europe?

[/quote]

Sounds like your friend is "shackled" by secularism.

I hope someday she will be freed.


#9

If you simply extrapolate from trends, in 50 years, there will be few Christians and many Muslims in Europe. As we in the US have seen, the headlong rush toward secularism started in the 1960s started to be reversed in the 1980s. Where we once thought that "freedom to choose" abortion was permanently fixed in our national ethos, we now see a majority of Americans favoring restrictions on abortion. Christianity will make a comeback. It may or may not be Catholic Christianity, and will not be Catholic exclusively.

I am somewhat heartened that there may be as many as 30% of the French population that believes in God. I expect the real numbers are much higher.

[quote="Codix105, post:1, topic:309600"]
Went to coffee with a liberal friend of mine today and this was discussed. She feels that post-Christian Europe has finally shaken off "The shackles" and freed itself. With such statistics as low as 15% believing in god in Norway, and 20-30% in France. What do you think is there a chance of the near total an annihilation of Christianity in Western Europe?

[/quote]


#10

Our Lady foretold it almost 100 years ago.
Look at Europe in 1917…and compare it to Europe as we approach 2017…


#11

I see the numbers rising and falling every few years, but I also see the decreases being larger than the increases.


#12

The tyranny of positivism has made any kind of religion (and most ancient philosophies for that matter) a subject of scorn and revulsion. You are viewed as “unenlightened” and “superstitious” for believing such things without evidence.

If Christianity is ever going to reclaim its place at the top of society, then the scourge of positivism and empiricism needs to die.


#13

And it is not just this wide secularism, but it is also anti-catholic thinking deep in most of the people here. For example, I live in one of the most catholic countries in the Europe - Slovakia, but my mother told me, that it would a shame for the entire family, if I would become a priest. Socialism destroyed a lot in us, we lost hope, we lost faith and we are slowly loosing the understanding of true love.

On the other hand, as the numbers are getting smaller, people are getting more united, more driven, more motivated. Many so-called traditionalist are very hostile to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, for example, but without it, I myself would probably not be even a practicing catholic. It reminds me of St. Francis of Assisi, who, surrounded by corruption and evil, found new ways, clean ways to follow Christ... so must we, in these times, find new ways to bring Christ closer to the people.


#14

I'm glad to see that people have taken an interest in the topic, and there have been some very interesting posts I'm I did a little digging and I could not find my friends source. It is right according to Wikipedia, but lets face it I don't think they are reliable for this topic. Anyone know the correct numbers, also do you think Christianity can make a full comeback like it did in the 180"s in France?


#15

[quote="Codix105, post:14, topic:309600"]
I'm glad to see that people have taken an interest in the topic, and there have been some very interesting posts I'm I did a little digging and I could not find my friends source. It is right according to Wikipedia, but lets face it I don't think they are reliable for this topic. Anyone know the correct numbers, also do you think Christianity can make a full comeback like it did in the 180"s in France?

[/quote]

The numbers I have read of regular church-goers in Europe are like 15% and lower.

Could Christianity, by which I mean true Christianity, make a come-back in Europe? Of course! God can do anything! It may be that on the material realm no, but the same would have been said when the handful of followers of Christ were huddled in the Upper Room, and look what that led to!

We must pray a great deal....


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