Court lets private schools expel lesbians

In the first place, if these girls were truly being prayerful, kind and observant, they would not be acting on their same-sex attractions. Indeed, no one would even know that they experienced them. While on a purely abstract level, having same-sex attractions may not make one a terrible Catholic, in the real world, being subject to such temptations renders the possibility of true, pious practice so remote as to not be practically considerable. You will notice, for instance, that there is no known example of a saint who ever struggled with same-sex attractions. The Church is telling us something important about the nature of these sorts of people and it is for the faithful heed her wisdom and act accordingly.

Secondly, I must object to this notion that the girls in this situation are not hurting anyone. In fact, if nothing else, they are doing grievous spiritual harm to themselves, each other and every other student that they come into contact with. The temptations that these girls experience and have made public ought to have a swift and severe response administered in environments such as a school. This is the best way to teach the rest of the student body exactly how unacceptable these temptations are and will guard against a blasé attitude to such issues.

Finally, you ought not construe my meaning to be that such individuals as these girls have rendered themselves unqualified for a Catholic education in an absolute sense. I only mean that they be absent from those schools run by the Church to whom parents have entrusted the sacred duty of the education of their children. Such institutions have the highest moral responsibility to ensure that anything that may complicate the formation of their student body be rejected. Those teaching organs that individuals, such as these girls, may feel free to avail themselves of are things such as just laws passed by the legislature and enforced soundly by the courts; psychologists, psychiatrists, other health professionals or mental infirmaries; and, if it comes to it, the penal system.

While I don’t agree with the school’s decision, I fully support that the government can’t infringe on a private institution’s ability to chose who it educates.

In the end, this is going to be a positive for these girls: they got out of a school that rejected them and any one like them, and into a more normal situation.

On the other hand, religious schools that try to impose policies like this are going to find themselves isolated because most people don’t send their kids to private school in order to have them indoctrinated into right-wing Christianity. They are looking for quality education, not bigotry. My guess would be that this will change the nature of the schools enrollment over the next several years…making it more an evangelical institution and less an educational one.

actually you have that backwards. yes most private schools have better education, but that is mostly due to smller class sizes and the fact that parents who care enough to pay for the tuttion tend to care and be more involved.

the major reason people send their kids to a religious school is so that they can learn the faith. the indoctrinitation that occurs is in the public schools where the pro-gay lobby and others like them are allowed to push whatever they want without parental consent.

Exactly

I don’t agree that having sinful temptations of whatever type renders it nearly impossible to lead a pious life. I also don’t agree with your implication that this type of sinful temptation is necessarily more difficult to overcome than other types of sinful temptations. If you can cite Church teaching backing up either of these points, I would be interested to read it.

[quote=Other Eric]You will notice, for instance, that there is no known example of a saint who ever struggled with same-sex attractions. The Church is telling us something important about the nature of these sorts of people and it is for the faithful heed her wisdom and act accordingly.[/FONT]
[/quote]

The lack of canonized saints of whatever stripe is pretty thin evidence the Church is trying to tell us something important about such people. There is no known example of a saint from Kansas. There is no known example of a saint who played lawn darts. There is no known example of a saint who struggled with violating copyright law. The Church must be telling us something important about such people.:ehh:

I am appealing to the world as it is, not some abstract hypothetical. Stating that a person with same-sex attractions has many more obstacles to a pious life is simply a pragmatic observation made by the Church most recently in her wise decision to deny such people ordination. Another sound observation is that unlike Kansas, lawn darts or copyright law, same-sex attraction is a temptation to evil almost as old as the world. It is not some morally neutral variation of the human sexual faculty. Therefore, to be unable to find even one person who has successfully grappled with this issue is suggests cautious approach to such people. I offer the lack of even one saint as the most potent example of this.

[FONT=Arial]This observation suggests a certain approach to those with same-sex attraction. Since there exists no concrete evidence that anyone with same-sex attractions was able to overcome such in order to lead a chaste and holy life and since there exists mountains of evidence that demonstrate such people have a high degree of susceptibility serious diseases of both the mind and body, the pragmatic approach to be taken is one in which such people are kept away from those sorts of people who have demonstrated the aptitude for a chaste and holy life. It is merely the application of the teaching of Holy Scripture where Paul says: [/FONT]

I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people, not at all referring to the immoral of this world or the greedy and robbers or idolaters; for you would then have to leave the world. But I now write to you not to associate with anyone named a brother, if he is immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunkard, or a robber, not even to eat with such a person. (1)

[FONT=Arial]It is our job to take seriously the advice of Holy Scripture and the discernment of the Magisterium. To substitute our own ideals over such authority can be nothing other than pride. Expelling people with same-sex attractions from educational institutions is only one of the ways in which the pious are to do this.[/FONT]

FONT=Arial New American Bible. Washington D.C.: United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 2002. 1 Cor 5:9-11. Available online at: usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians5.htm[/FONT]

[/FONT]The lack of even one known saint that has struggled with this may be a potent example of the fact that such things were not admitted to in public until recently. Whether it also suggests there never were any such saints is a bit more of a leap of logic that I find doubtful.

[quote=Other Eric]It is merely the application of the teaching of Holy Scripture where Paul says:

I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people, not at all referring to the immoral of this world or the greedy and robbers or idolaters; for you would then have to leave the world. But I now write to you not to associate with anyone named a brother, if he is immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunkard, or a robber, not even to eat with such a person. (1)

It is our job to take seriously the advice of Holy Scripture and the discernment of the Magisterium. To substitute our own ideals over such authority can be nothing other than pride. Expelling people with same-sex attractions from educational institutions is only one of the ways in which the pious are to do this.[/FONT]
[/quote]

[/FONT]Strangely, I didn’t see same-sex attraction listed in Paul’s quote. On whose authority did it get added to the list?

We are grateful that our grandchildren are in a Catholic school, and that the school is able to remove some harmful influences to their innocence. The culture is so pervasive, that I believe the church’s schools should be islands of obedience to church teaching. Children think that what they see around them is the norm, so we should make huge efforts that they see more of the good than they do of the disordered. We should do everything in our power, including lots of prayer to help the people who are disordered, but not keep them in contact with our kids who don’t understand yet the concept of acceptance of the person, but not the disorder.

We seem to be living in a very coarse and immoral time when people are actually admired for livng in a licentious way…It wasn’t always this way, and history has shown the pendulum always swings back, when things become too immoral

I think we are beginning to see this happening now much to the chagrin of those that are involved in loose living

What scares me is that people actually want that pendulum to swing back. Sure the church says no unjust discrimination. What does unjust mean? In the church “just” includes forced institutionalization to protect the general population. Yippee for concentration camps! Oh but wait what about those countries that cant institutionalize adequately, thats right the church supports the death penality in that case. Like Uganda right now. Immoral Crisis solved. Your pendulum dream come true. People living and hiding in fear as a mob hunts them down and kill them, so the mob feels safe.:shrug:

Personally I want to see every one safe, straight, gay, thiest and athiest, but man always wants to see some group pay with there lives for believing in something different.

On the contrary, there exist volumes of evidence of the same-sex attractions of many, many historical figures. Even a few annecdotes where such people have come into contact with the saints. It seems that there were few secrets then. The only difference now is that the culture is shameless about it.

Further, Paul lists the immoral, a category under which those with same-sex attractions undoubtedly fall. Therefore, no addition to the text is required.

You are putting you own spin on what I posted…these are your words and thought not mine

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