Credo chanted in Latin at a vernacular OF Mass?

This morning, I turned on my Sirius radio, and tuned into channel 160, which is EWTN Radio. I’m pretty new to EWTN, so please forgive me if this is a silly question. A vernacular OF Mass was being said, but the Credo was chanted by a male cantor in Latin. I’ve never heard this before at a Mass in the vernacular. I loved it, but is this permitted according to the rubrics? Even at the more traditional parish I go to, where both forms of the Mass are offered, the Credo in the OF is always said by the congrigation in English, unless the OF is being said in Latin, which is extremely rare.

It is certainly permitted to chant the Credo in Latin at any mass in which the Creed is prescribed.

In the OF the congregation would normally join in the Creed, spoken, sung, or chanted; perhaps the cantor was simply leading the congregation and was miked to the extent that you couldn’t hear the congregation?

Just to note, it’s not unusual for members of the congregation, who know the chant, to join in singing the Credo at “High Mass” in the EF either. I do it regularly. :slight_smile:

This was not the case. I could hear background noises before the Credo started, but I didn’t hear anyone else chanting the Credo but the cantor. I also heard the congrigation responding to the priest during the prayers said after the Credo. I thought it extremely odd that only the cantor would chant the Credo.

You can celebrate the OF in a mixture of Latin and the vernacular (and Greek if you recite the Kyrie in Greek). When the Holy Father visited Great Britain earlier this year all (well most anyway) where in a mixture of Latin and English.

I agree with those other posters who said the whole congregation should recite the Creed.

Being a geek myself, despite the fact that you heard background noises before doesn’t necessarily mean that the congregation wasn’t singing, esp. with the responses.

The Liber Usualis and Gradule Romanum are still approved books for the New Mass too.

In my church, where New mass and also TLM is offered in the vernacular New Mass the Credo is recited in vernacular by the people, but everything else (Introit, Kyrie, Gloria, Gradual, Offertory antiphon, Agnus Dei, Communion antiphon) is chanted in Latin either by the cantor or by the cantor - chorus -congregation.

I believe if the Cantor want the people to chant the Credo in Latin with him, he have to start it alone, before other learn it.

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :

“68. The Creed is to be sung or said by the priest together with the people on Sundays and Solemnities. It may be said also at particular celebrations of a more solemn character.
If it is sung, it is begun by the priest or, if this is appropriate, by a cantor or by the choir. It is sung, however, either by all together or by the people alternating with the choir.
If not sung, it is to be recited by all together or by two parts of the assembly responding one to the other.”

Regarding the use of some Latin and some English in the Mass. From the 2004 Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum: "[112.] Mass is celebrated either in Latin or in another language, provided that liturgical texts are used which have been approved according to the norm of law. Except in the case of celebrations of the Mass that are scheduled by the ecclesiastical authorities to take place in the language of the people, Priests are always and everywhere permitted to celebrate Mass in Latin.[footnote 200:Cf. Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, n. 36 § 1; Code of Canon Law, can. 928.]

Canon 928 has “Can. 928 The eucharistic celebration is to be carried out in the Latin language or in another language provided that the liturgical texts have been legitimately approved.” (From vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3A.HTM ).

Most certainly allowed. At the abbey I am affiliated with the OF Mass is in the vernacular except that the proper and ordinary are chanted in Latin. That includes the introit, the gradual, the alleluia, the offertory and the communion antiphon for the proper, and the Kyrie, the Gloria (when applicable), the Credo when appropriate, the Sanctus, and the Angus Dei. The rest is in French plainchant.

Our small Gregorian schola also chants the proper and ordinary at an OF Mass once a month. The Mass is in French, the proper and ordinary in Latin.

The texts that you cite say that Mass can be celebrated in Latin. They also say that Mass can be celebrated in a vernacular language that the Holy See has approved for liturgical use.

They do not say that the Mass must be exclusively celebrated throughout in either Latin or a vernacular language. It does not say that Mass cannot be celebrated in a mixture of Latin and a vernacular language.

If they have the interpretation you infer, His Holiness the Pope is committing a number of liturgical abuses. When he came to Great Britain he celebrated a number of Masses using both Latin and English and at the Mass he celebrated in Scotland Gàidhlig was also used. When the recent synod for the Middle East was held, Latin and a variety of vernacular languages were used at the Mass with which the Pope celebrated the opening of the synod.

“Pope Paul VI has expressed often, and even recently, the wish that the faithful of all countries be able to sing at least a few Gregorian chants in Latin (for example, the Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Agnus Dei). [footnote 1: See Paul VI, Address to a general audience, 22 Aug. 1973 [DOL 55 no. 548]; Address to the CIMS, 12 Oct. 1973 [DOL 522 no. 4235]. Secretariat of State, Letter to the Associazione Italiana di Santa Cecilia, 30 Sept. 1973 [DOL 521 no. 4234]. In compliance, this Congregation has prepared the enclosed booklet Iubilate Deo, which provides a short collection of such Gregorian chants.”

From a letter by the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship “Voluntati obsequens” to bishops, accompanying the booklet* Iubilate Deo*, 14 April 1974.

Documents on the Liturgy 1963-1979, Liturgical Press, Minnesota, 1982, ISBN 0-8146-1281-4, page 1327. “DOL” refers to this book.

Vatican II actually declares that Latin should be retained and used, given pride of place, and Gregorian Chant should be used as well.

What you heard on EWTN is what Catholics worldwide should hear.

Do you attend St. Martin of Tours? I visited there once, and saw you are from Louisville. I attended a lovely Solemn High Mass there in August.

Yes, I attend St. Martin’s, and I like both forms of the Mass there. Even as traditional as St. Martin’s is, they don’t usually chant the Credo in Latin in the OF. However, at the 11:00 OF, the propers, Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei are all usually chanted by the choir and the congrigation in Latin. The reason for the Credo not being chanted may be because the Masses there are pretty close together, and the Credo is extremely long when chanted in Latin. Even when I was in the Latin Mass choir, I always had trouble memorizing the Credo, because it was so long. I didn’t appreciate it then like I do now.

Often times with new music, especially if it is something in another language like Latin and it is chanted, you will only hear the cantor or the choir do it… at first. If the music director does it right (and if the priests are on board with it) he/she will do this music every week at the mass until the congregation learns it by rote. It’s also better if they provide words and music, although most people don’t read music anyway. (I’ve also seen a couple hymnals which included Latin chants, as I’ve had to use them myself when leading the chants.)

This might have been the first time, or at least very early on, when the Credo has been chanted. It is a long one and not as familiar to most, I know. My parish has done the Credo at our Latin OF masses which is usually with a choir, so we always had them to help “support” the congregation. I remember the first time it was chanted, people around me, a couple who seemed to know it and a few others who were trying to just chant it were making an effort. It wasn’t “loud” so I doubt that they could be heard across the way, but you can hear them around me. Since I read music and was chanting out, that probably helped as well. (Our parish actually has these little booklets for the Latin OF with the Latin on one side and the English on the other. It also includes the music.)

Another example is this tiny, country, mountain parish where I’ve attended since a baby during vacations and many weekends. Most of the congregants were farmers. The priest, a young man, in his mid to late 30s, maybe early 40s (I was in college at the time, but he did look “young-ish” at least to me.) was very much into having some Latin in the mass again. The first time I heard it there, I was so surprised to hear the whole congregation chanting a few of the mass parts in Latin because we never did it at least for as long as I had been attending. After the mass, I asked him what he did and if it was hard. He said that it actually wasn’t. Since there was no music director (they did have an organist who was also one of the local farmers there, but he didn’t know how to implement it), Father led the congregation each week at mass for a few months until they just picked it up. He even taught them the chanted Salve Regina. But, again, they didn’t just pick it up immediately. It did take time. At first, no one sang and then over time, they all (if not most) got it. As small as it was, they could out-sing and typical large parish. What helped, I believe, was that they priest was supportive of it and also knew what he was doing.

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