Cross-over priests


#1

When married Anglican/Episcopalian priests enter the Catholic church, retaining their orders and marriages, do they a) have to go through priestly formation first b) take vows of celibacy


#2

Yes, they have to go through a period of formation.
No, they don't have to be celibate afterwards.


#3

[quote="waterdog, post:1, topic:290465"]
When married Anglican/Episcopalian priests enter the Catholic church, retaining their orders and marriages, do they a) have to go through priestly formation first b) take vows of celibacy

[/quote]

I wouldn't quite say they "retain their orders." The Catholic Church does not recognize Anglican/Episcopalian ordinations as valid. Any of their priests that enter the Catholic Church must request ordination and then be ordained in order to function as Catholic priests. This would naturally include a period of formation (though it might differ from what other priests go through).

Diocesan priests don't take a vow of celibacy (only religious order priests take such a vow). Rather, they make a promise of chastity. As married people are also called to chastity, there is no conflict for these married priests.


#4

[quote="Joe_5859, post:3, topic:290465"]

Diocesan priests don't take a vow of celibacy (only religious order priests take such a vow). Rather, they make a promise of chastity. As married people are also called to chastity, there is no conflict for these married priests.

[/quote]

Got that a bit backwards: regular, i.e., order, priests take a vow of chastity - they promise in a solemn way not to engage in any sexual activity not permitted by their state, i.e. nothing. Secular, i.e., diocesan, priests make a promise, not a vow, of celibacy, i.e. that they won't marry, however in this case there is a dispensation for the Anglican priests from the promise requirement. Celibacy is simply the state of non-marriage. E.g., the French word for a bachelor is: un celibataire.

Thus a monk who engages in any sexual activity not only sins but breaks his vow - another sin. A diocesan priest who engages in any sexual activity but does not marry has sinned, but not broken his promise unless he gets married - and then it is simply breaking a promise, not breaking a vow before God. Of course, if he has a dispensation as long as the sexual activity is permitted and within the marriage he neither sins nor is there a promise to break.


#5

We have a few priests in our parish who were Anglican.

During Mass it seems normal but when they mention their wives/children/grandchildren during homilies it seems very strange.

It is also strange that they do not live at the church as they live with their families in their own houses which is also strange.

It feels like they are part time priests as they have God as well as wives/children whereas cradle Catholic priests seem to be full time and always there.

It just takes me a while to get used to things when they change like this.


#6

[quote="Nelka, post:5, topic:290465"]
We have a few priests in our parish who were Anglican.

During Mass it seems normal but when they mention their wives/children/grandchildren during homilies it seems very strange.

It is also strange that they do not live at the church as they live with their families in their own houses which is also strange.

It feels like they are part time priests as they have God as well as wives/children whereas cradle Catholic priests seem to be full time and always there.

It just takes me a while to get used to things when they change like this.

[/quote]

Numerous cradle Catholic priests were also married prior to ordination we should recall.


#7

Not any priest that I have ever known.

They all took a vow of celibacy, not sure what goes on where you live though but here Catholic priests are all celibate except for ones who have come over.


#8

Many Eastern Rite priests are married - though mostly not in the west (that's a long story). It's true that few Latin Rite priests are married.


#9

[quote="Nelka, post:7, topic:290465"]
Not any priest that I have ever known.

They all took a vow of celibacy, not sure what goes on where you live though but here Catholic priests are all celibate except for ones who have come over.

[/quote]

No they do not. Not do all the priests we know represent all priests. Priest in many of the Eastern Catholic Churches very often marry prior to ordination. There are numerous Eastern Catholic priests in the UK. Also Orthodox priests are validly ordained and a large percentage are married prior to ordination as is customary in those Churches.


#10

[quote="Nelka, post:7, topic:290465"]
Not any priest that I have ever known.

They all took a vow of celibacy, not sure what goes on where you live though but here Catholic priests are all celibate except for ones who have come over.

[/quote]

I heard or read somewhere that many of the priests in Finland or Sweeden or some such places are married. Sorry, y'all just European to me. :D Anyway, that's what I read... somewhere.

Roman Catholic priests are celibate for the most part, but secular diocesan priests don't vow celibacy because they don't make vows in the first place. Consecrated religious make vows which may or may not include celibacy/chastity. A consecrated man - monk, friar, brother, etc - makes vows as part of his consecration as a monk or friar, not as part of his ordianation to the priesthood.

The regular priests in the parishes don't make vows but instead make promises. There is a difference between a vow and a promise.

-Tim-


#11

[quote="TimothyH, post:10, topic:290465"]
I heard or read somewhere that many of the priests in Finland or Sweeden or some such places are married. Sorry, y'all just European to me. :D Anyway, that's what I read... somewhere.

Roman Catholic priests are celibate for the most part, but secular diocesan priests don't vow celibacy because they don't make vows in the first place. Consecrated religious make vows which may or may not include celibacy/chastity. A consecrated man - monk, friar, brother, etc - makes vows as part of his consecration as a monk or friar, not as part of his ordianation to the priesthood.

The regular priests in the parishes don't make vows but instead make promises. There is a difference between a vow and a promise. Most of the clergy in Finland belong to the Evangelical Lutheran Church and would not be regarded as validly ordained from our point of view. Although having said that there are areas of Europe where Orthodoxy is the major Church in a number of states and there marriage for priests we would consider validly ordained would be very common.

-Tim-

[/quote]

Remember however the Roman Catholic Church though is only one of the 23 Churches of the Catholic Church. The main


#12

[quote="TimothyH, post:10, topic:290465"]
The regular priests in the parishes don't make vows but instead make promises. There is a difference between a vow and a promise.

[/quote]

Just to nitpick a bit here: the word "regular" when applied to a priest means "living by a rule", that is, in a religious institute or order. Contrast this with a "secular" priest who is diocesan and is a typical pastor of a parish.


#13

I’d venture to say that most Latin (Western) Catholics don’t know any Eastern Catholics, let alone an Eastern priest. My guess is that they are more likely to know an Orthodox priest than an Eastern priest.

My parish has a married priest who was a former Episcopalian priest. (Or at least he was a parishioner when he was ordained. I don’t think he is technically assigned to our parish even though he regularly says Mass for us.)

But I’m not sure I’d call this a “change” so much as an adaptation. But I suppose the percentage of former Anglican priests who are now Catholic priests makes up a much greater percentage of all priests in England than it does in the United States.


#14

They would continue to have a normal married life but if the wife died the priest would not be allowed to marry again.


#15

Doesn't anybody know what "priests that I have known" mean?

It doesn't mean every priest in the world it means all the priests that I have known!

Why do you have to change peoples words to suit your own means?


#16

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