Is it just your parish or the whole diocese? I remember when I was a kid, the bells stopped because the Bishop didn’t like them. Then, then came back with a new bishop.
I have to charitably disagree here. Well one thing I have never heard anyone who raises their hands be called a heretic but maybe that has happened here at CAF. I do not know.
The difference I see is with the sign of the cross or beating your breast three times is it is something someone does their own self. It is a private and personal devotion. It is not imposed on another person. Probably the hand raising thing got a bad rap when people started being forced to do it by the people standing next to them or a parish decided everyone should move to the center ailse and hold hands and do a sing along Our Father.
The other thing is with the sign of the cross or beating of the breast your hands do not move in front of the other person, causing a distraction. Again it is a personal and private devotion that can can be made with very little notice.
And as someone else said, sign of the cross or beating of the breast is not a mimick of the priestly duties.
My Roman missal says that during the confetior, we should beat our breast [3 times?].
My Roman missal also says that during the Apostle’s Creed and Nicean Creed that we should all bow during the words “and by the power of the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary and was made man.”
Additionally [from memory], on the Solemnities of Christmas and the Annunciation, we are to kneel during the words “and by the power of the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary and was made man.”
And during the reading of the Passion on Passion Sunday, we are called to kneel for some period of time (I don’t have that handy.
These are not optional. They are required. I do them. So long as we all do them, there is no distraction
I agree. I do all those things also. I guess I was meaning beating your breast three times during the elevation.
I beat my breast three times at the times when required and then also during the elevation and also during the Kyrie Elieson. That is what I was taught growing up but they are not required now.
They seem to have ceased with the introduction of The Marty Haugen Mass of Singpraise.
You do know that bells are not required and Marty Haugen composed multiple Mass settings, some liked by many people, right?
Some apologist told me that they were.
Several parishes here. A bishop emeritus celebrated Mass at the home parish and bells were omitted. Also the pastor’s special singalong which usually followed the prayers of the faithful.
Paragraph #150 of the GIRM is the only place bells are referenced, and the wording says “if appropriate” - many priests have taken that as optional.
How many different threads are you going to post this same thing?
I was born in the late 60’s. From as young as I can remember, at consecration, our congregation bowed their head as they struck their chest with their right fist and said “my Lord and my God “. After I married in the late 80’s and moved away, members of the parishes I attended did not do this. I then assumed it was a gesture done away with at some point that the parish I grew up in did not do away with. Soon after, at some point, as I bowed my head, I began striking my chest 3 times, saying “Jesus” with each strike; followed by a short prayer of “I love you, I praise you, I glorify you”. It is a special moment for me, and all that matters in that moment is my moment with Jesus at the table of his sacrifice for me. I guess I never have thought whether it was proper or allowed or not. It is simply a special moment for me. At any rate, it is quite rare for me to see anyone strike their chest and bow their head during the consecration; and if I do, it tends to be someone of an older generation than myself.
During the Liturgy of the Eucharist , @TexasLoneStar , I make the sign of the cross at the beginning with the priest , once on forehead , lips and breast at the beginning of the Gospel , and at the final blessing , and at no other times during the Eucharist .
Does that really happen? Wow! I have to chuckle!
I went to Mass once at my parish. At the epiclesis I heard a small bell rung. Same at both elevations. Someone was covertly doing it from the nave. I couldn’t help but smile.
People catch movement even out of the “corner of the eye”. and it will stick out.
That same Archdiocese is having a traveling liturgical conference, and one of the items is that the congregation is not to use the orans posture.
While I understand the source of the rule (and follow the rule - I don’t use the orans posture during Mass) I am inclined to think that curing that one is going to be somewhat like shoveling water up hill with a pitchfork.
Some water undoubtedly will land uphill, and some parishes likely will have a very wide-bladed pitchfork; others…
Given that it has been a gesture used for something like 40 years+, well, it may be a very loooooong time.
Not my battle.
Oh, it will reach clear down to Medford.
Yeah, both the lay use of the orans position and hand-holding during the Our Father are instances of the horse not only having left the barn, but being way over in the next state by now.
There is that little bit about “actions, gestures, and bodily attitudes”. Holding hands during the Our Father as near as I can remember came from the Charismatic Movement, but the gestures with the hands (orans position during the Our Father, and the incessant hand gesture toward the priest or deacon accompanying “And with your spirit” seems to have come from the progressive side.
Then, again, there is the issue of how long something can occur constantly before it de facto becomes law. I had heard in the past that it took 40 years, but recently Peter Kreeft said 30 years.
How that fits in, I don’t know. I have heard some posit that all law comes top - down, but Kreeft being a Canon lawyer and at least the impliction that some law starts from the bottom - up, I am inclined to think the matter is not so cast in stone.
Then, again, I am not going to take on Archbishop Sample mano a mano in a matter such as this. Which does not say I will not be an observer, sitting and watching (or standing).
I gently strike my chest. It’s what my mom did and now I do it, too.
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