Customs in mass


#1

Hi there in the 1980's did Alter Boys wash Priests hands during the mass. When did it happen in the mass. Before Communion. Thanks cate :confused:


#2

They did it long before the 1980's.


#3

Altar servers didn’t and don’t wash the priest’s hands; they pour water over the priest’s fingers. This is done after the offertory and is called the washing of hands or the lavabo.


#4

This has been happening for quite a long time, all the way back to the council of trent (1545), and presumably quite a while before then as well.


#5

It is also done again at the ablutions after communion. The priest will put the fingers used for confecting and distributing the Eucharist in the chalice and one of the servers (proper would be ordained acolytes which servers substitute for) will pour some of the unused, unconsecrated wine over his fingers and into the chalice.

This is then consumed by the priest. Then the priest moving to the Epistle (right side as we see the altar from the pews) side of the altar holds the chalice with his fingers out for the servers to first pour the remaining wine and water over his fingers. This is done to make sure all particles of the precious body and blood are dissolved and consumed so no part of the precious body is desecrated.

Finally the priest consumes the remaining water and wine in the chalice, wipes the chalice with a linen rag or I have sometimes seen the corporal used for this. If there are extra sacred vessels, such as a ciborium, then water and wine would be transferred from the chalice to the ciborium before being consumed.

This is how it is done in the EF of Mass. I have seen similar done in the New Mass, but it may or may not be done depending on the priest, etc.


#6

[quote="moon1234, post:5, topic:304507"]
It is also done again at the ablutions after communion. The priest will put the fingers used for confecting and distributing the Eucharist in the chalice and one of the servers (proper would be ordained acolytes which servers substitute for) will pour some of the unused, unconsecrated wine over his fingers and into the chalice.

This is then consumed by the priest. Then the priest moving to the Epistle (right side as we see the altar from the pews) side of the altar holds the chalice with his fingers out for the servers to first pour the remaining wine and water over his fingers. This is done to make sure all particles of the precious body and blood are dissolved and consumed so no part of the precious body is desecrated.

Finally the priest consumes the remaining water and wine in the chalice, wipes the chalice with a linen rag or I have sometimes seen the corporal used for this. If there are extra sacred vessels, such as a ciborium, then water and wine would be transferred from the chalice to the ciborium before being consumed.

This is how it is done in the EF of Mass. I have seen similar done in the New Mass, but it may or may not be done depending on the priest, etc.

[/quote]

This is not quite correct. No wine is poured after communion, only water. It is not poured over the fingers, just into the Chalis. It is then used to rinse the chalises, ciboria, and patens to collect any portion of the consecrated species. Then consumed by the priest.

That is how it is done in our OF mass now. It is also how it was done when I served as an altar boy before VII in the Cathedral at Baker and at various churches in the Portland Archdiocese.

[unless they have changed the rubrics for the EF mass since 1960's]


#7

[quote="Evan, post:6, topic:304507"]
This is not quite correct. No wine is poured after communion, only water. It is not poured over the fingers, just into the Chalis. It is then used to rinse the chalises, ciboria, and patens to collect any portion of the consecrated species. Then consumed by the priest.

That is how it is done in our OF mass now. It is also how it was done when I served as an altar boy before VII in the Cathedral at Baker and at various churches in the Portland Archdiocese.

[unless they have changed the rubrics for the EF mass since 1960's]

[/quote]

Wine actually can be used in the EF after communion, and still can be used in the OF if the priest desires. To my knowledge, the priests when you served before VII should have been using wine.


#8

[quote="superamazingman, post:7, topic:304507"]
Wine actually can be used in the EF after communion, and still can be used in the OF if the priest desires. To my knowledge, the priests when you served before VII should have been using wine.

[/quote]

Very interesting. Looking it up on the internet (which is never wrong) I see that wine is poured over the fingers, then water. I don't remember bringing both cruets to the altar after communion.

In any case, it always ends with rinsing with water after the wine. Which was not mentioned in your post. So I guess we were both wrong. :shrug:

As the 60's grow farther and farther away, I remember less and less :(


#9

Which was not mentioned in your post. So I guess we were both wrong.

If you look at my post you will see that I DID say both water and wine are used.

After communion the Server (s) will place the paton(s) on the altar if the priest does not take them from the servers. The priest will clean the paton into the chalice (rub all particles on the paton into the chalice), followed by any empty sacred vessels.

When the priest is ready he will take the chalice with his fingers inside and turn to the epistle side of the altar, while standing in the middle and one server will pour some wine into the chalice. The priest will usually stop the server before all of the wine is poured. The server will then return the edge of the altar on the episle side. Server 2, with the water cruit, will then join server 1 at the edge of the altar (in the case of only one server, that server will retrieve the water cruit (if not already in hand) from the credence table.

Father will then move with the epistle side of the altar and have the wine poured first followed by the remaining water over his fingers. He will then set the chalice on the altar about 3/4 of the way towards the tabernacle. He will return to center of the altar and retrieve the Chalice, finish consuming the water and wine and then dry the chalice. Finally the chalice will be covered with pall, then the Chalice veil, the corporal will be folded and put in the burse and the burse put on top of the chalice veil.

All of this CAN be done in the Novus Ordo, but it is not required. I have only seen it done in my diocese in the parishes where the EF is also said.


#10

[quote="cates, post:1, topic:304507"]
Hi there in the 1980's did Alter Boys wash Priests hands during the mass. When did it happen in the mass. Before Communion. Thanks cate :confused:

[/quote]

It's always been done in the preparation for the Consecration, which also comes before Holy Communion.

I'm not sure what the priest says in most parishes but the traditional prayer is from the psalms of David:

"I will wash my hands among the innocent, and I will compass Thine altar, O Lord. That I may hear the voice of Thy praise, and tell of all Thy wondrous works.

I have loved, O Lord, the beauty of Thy house and the place where Thy glory dwelleth. Take not away my soul, O God, with the wicked: nor my life with bloody men. In whose hands are iniquities, their right hand is filled with gifts.

But as for me I have walked in mine innocence: redeem me, and have mercy on me. My foot hath stood in the direct way; in the churches I will bless Thee, O Lord."


#11

When I said wine, I meant “wine, in addition to the water.”

Darn it, Evan! why can’t you just read my mind next time? It’d be so much easier for everyone. :slight_smile:


#12

[quote="superamazingman, post:11, topic:304507"]
When I said wine, I meant "wine, in addition to the water."

Darn it, Evan! why can't you just read my mind next time? It'd be so much easier for everyone. :)

[/quote]

I'm sorry, I was holding my tongue wrong, or I would have read your mind. Mea Culpa :(


#13

[quote="Evan, post:12, topic:304507"]
I'm sorry, I was holding my tongue wrong, or I would have read your mind. Mea Culpa :(

[/quote]

:D


#14

[quote="Rich_C, post:10, topic:304507"]
"I will wash my hands among the innocent, and I will compass Thine altar, O Lord. That I may hear the voice of Thy praise, and tell of all Thy wondrous works.

I have loved, O Lord, the beauty of Thy house and the place where Thy glory dwelleth. Take not away my soul, O God, with the wicked: nor my life with bloody men. In whose hands are iniquities, their right hand is filled with gifts.

But as for me I have walked in mine innocence: redeem me, and have mercy on me. My foot hath stood in the direct way; in the churches I will bless Thee, O Lord."

[/quote]

And FWIW, compare with the Knox translation:

Psalm 25: 6 With the pure in heart I will wash my hands clean, and take my place among them at thy altar, 7 there making thy praises known, telling the story of all thy wonderful deeds. 8 How well, Lord, I love the house where thou dwellest, the shrine of thy glory! 9 Lord, never count this soul for lost with the wicked, this life among the blood-thirsty; 10 hands ever stained with guilt, palms ever itching for a bribe! 11 Be it mine to guide my steps clear of wrong; deliver me in thy mercy. 12 On sure ground my feet are set; where his people gather I will join in blessing the Lord’s name.


#15

Thankyou all, for your very detailed and specific answers. very very helpful.


#16

Just want to add that the lavado and the purification of fingers and chalice (other vessels) is done at every Ordinary form Mass I have ever been to.


#17

[quote="Evan, post:6, topic:304507"]
This is not quite correct. No wine is poured after communion, only water. It is not poured over the fingers, just into the Chalis. It is then used to rinse the chalises, ciboria, and patens to collect any portion of the consecrated species. Then consumed by the priest.

That is how it is done in our OF mass now. It is also how it was done when I served as an altar boy before VII in the Cathedral at Baker and at various churches in the Portland Archdiocese.

[unless they have changed the rubrics for the EF mass since 1960's]

[/quote]

Some priests finished the wine some didn't. But the water was always poured in to the chalice over the fingers that the priest has used to give communion usually thumbs and index fingers, some priest kept thumb and indesx fingers togeter all the time throughout the mass wen I was a sever.


#18

I believe that if the priest will celebrate another Mass within the Eucharistic fast time, he will not drink wine during the ablutions. That's probably why Evan remembers the priest not using wine after communion. Otherwise he is supposed to.

The purification of the vessels and fingers is called the "ablutions."
The "lavabo" is the washing of the priest's hands at the offertory.


closed #19

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