Da Vinci Whoppers


#1

Hello All,

Last Night on Coast to Coast AM w/ George Noory, there were two guests who were proponents of the Da Vinci Code. They made several claims that were very troublesome:

  1. The Resurrection was not in the Original Gospels, they were added on in the 4th century.

  2. “The Donation of Constantine” proves the “Roman” Church and the Papacy were founded as a Hybrid of Roman and Nazorean beliefs; and Constantine was the first Pope.

  3. The Original Nazorean Church was a Woman based Church, which was stamped out by Constantine’s Hybrid Roman Church.

  4. Early Gospels and other writings of the time affirm that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene (Who was later vilified by the Church) and had two sons and a daughter.

  5. Many groups had this “Secret” knowledge, including Da Vinci and other painters who blatantly put Mary Magdalene in their Last Supper paintings.

Can anyone respond to these claims. Because if they are at all accurate, they could undermine Christ and his Church. :confused:


#2

ANYONE can refute these bogus and tired claims. Here are some resources:

Cracking The Da Vinci Code
catholic.com/library/cracking_da_vinci_code.asp

The Da Vinci Hoax
carl-olson.com/abouttdvc.html

I find it appalling that any semi-intelligent human being would unquestionally accept the claims of this book, let alone be proponents and defenders of it, as these men on the radio show apparently are. :whacky:


#3

I’ve not read the Da Vinci Code, but the book Angels and Demons (by the same author) is the most worthless, anti-Catholic piece of garbage that I’ve ever read.


#4

Right off the top of my head I can refute a couple of them:

The “writings” they refer to are the Gnostic gospels which have been vilified by the Church, athiest scholars, etc. The gnostic gospels came from a division of people who believed the body was bad, the spirit good and there’s a whole lot of philosophy around that I don’t know much about. In any case, the sources used by Dan Brown have been long discredited by reputable scholars of all faiths or non-faiths.

Regarding the painting of the Last Supper…what a bunch of hogwash! The “Mary Magdalene” referred to is actually the Apostle John, who was often portrayed, as were many figures in Rennaissance art, as very feminine. Anyone who pays attention to art from that time period will see that pattern and thus discredit this author.

Additionally, Dan Brown’s sources are suspect in nature. He thanks “The Louvre”, which is just fine–what he is trying to imply is that they provided critical data to him about the work, but in reality he likely only darkened the door and spoke to no one.

Throughout his book he gets locations wrong in their descriptions and if anyone were to visit those areas they would not recognize the descriptions given by Mr. Brown.

Have no fear–there is a wealth of info to refute his claims and shred any of the “arguments” of his “proponents.”


#5
  1. IF that is the case, what are these people trying to prove? St. Paul said that Jesus was ressurected, so did St. John. Furthermore, there have been sources BEFORE the 4th Century saying that Jesus was Ressurected. Also, could they PROOVE that these accounts had been added, or was this something they thought up?

  2. Ballocks! www.newadvent.org , I believe, one can find the list of Popes. One can see that Constantine was NEVER a Pope and we’ve had a steady stream since Peter.

  3. I always heard that Constantine did the whole deathbed conversion and COULDN’T have done anything as grandiose as these people claim. He pretty much converted & died.

  4. Ballocks

  5. Ummmmm…nooooo…that IS St. John the Revelator. He looks feminine because, probably, he was so young.

These are soooooo very not accurate. They are the lies and fantasies of a deranged story-teller. DO NOT LISTEN TO GEORGE NOORY!!! I was giving him a listen one night when PJPII was ill and the guest said that God or an angel told him that the Pope would fake death and another Pope would be elected, but, the original Pope (JPII) would really be secretly touring the world… needless to say, I clicked off the station, then.


#6

[quote=cantrell]I’ve not read the Da Vinci Code, but the book Angels and Demons (by the same author) is the most worthless, anti-Catholic piece of garbage that I’ve ever read.
[/quote]

The Da Vinci Code is at least :eek: :eek: :eek: 100X worse…


#7

He also has people on his show saying that they saw Bigfoot last night! Please do not be troubled by what you hear on a show like that!


#8

The so-called “gnostic” gospels were written much later than the real gospels and were recognized as garbage by the Church when they were first written.

Irenaeus of Lyons wrote against gnosticism in his work originally called “Detection and Overthrow of the Gnosis Falsely So-Called” but commonly known as “Against Heresies.” He and others taught against this heresy because it painted a false picture of Jesus than that which had been handed down directly from the apostles–a nearly non-human and ghostly Jesus. The heresy died out rather soon, only to reappear in our own time.

In many respects, people of prior ages were a lot less gullible than those of today. It’s almost pathetic to see people who pride themselves on their intellect giving credence to such historically disproven nonsense.


#9

Hello All,

I recently purchased The Da Vinci Hoax and I’m looking forward to reading it. I have read Mr. Akin’s Cracking the Da Vinci Code. It packs quite a wallup for such a small thing. I have also watched the National Geographic documentary about the Da Vinci Code, so I am familiar with most of the arguments.

The problem is that the guests on Mr. Noory’s show talked about a lot of things not mentioned in Mr. Akin’s booklet. Such as “The Donation of Constantine,” which I’ve never heard of before. As well as, the “Nazorean” cult, which suppossedly was a woman based Christianity. In all fairness, one of the guests called to task some of Dan Brown’s “facts”. However, he also said that there were painters of Da Vinci’s period which actually had Mary Magdalen as the 13th apostle in their Last Supper paintings. The guests names were: William Henry www.williamhenry.net and Laurence Gardner www.graal.co.uk if anyone wants to learn more about their claims.

As for “Coast to Coast AM” itself, I’ve been listening to Art Bell and George Noory for years now. Coast to Coast provides forums for things that the mainsatream media constantly ignores. A lot of the content may sound ridiculous to some, but I have more respect for Art and George than most of the evening news anchors. A clear example would be the fact that Korean scientists were able to make a paralyzed woman walk using Umbilical Cord Blood, and only George Noory and the AP reported the story! I understand that the show can be problematic at times, but that is why I also listen to “Catholic Answers Live” to keep me from going astray. If we are to be defenders of the Word of God, we must be willing to listen to and answer claims against our beloved Faith. :cool:


#10

[quote=RikasAngel]Hello All,

Last Night on Coast to Coast AM w/ George Noory, there were two guests who were proponents of the Da Vinci Code. They made several claims that were very troublesome:

  1. The Resurrection was not in the Original Gospels, they were added on in the 4th century.
    [/quote]

They have to be joking. Read the first century writings. Irenaeus mentions it. Justin mentions the resurrection. Ignatius mentions it to the Ephesians in chapter 11. It is rediculous to say that it was added since Ignatius was living around 100AD.

  1. Early Gospels and other writings of the time affirm that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene (Who was later vilified by the Church) and had two sons and a daughter.

Not the ones that matter. There are also books out that claim that Reagan and all other recent presidents were evil, and some of them pedophiles. I don’t trust those, and I don’t trust the gnostic gospels.

  1. Many groups had this “Secret” knowledge, including Da Vinci and other painters who blatantly put Mary Magdalene in their Last Supper paintings.

Yep, 1500 years after Christ, Leonardo found out about Christ and Mary Magdalene. Great source of information. Further, infrared images of the original painting shows that he marked the people in his painting by name. The one purported to be Mary is labeled John.

I will let others answer the other questions.


#11

Hey,

#2 is really easy. The Donation of Constantine is a famous or maybe I should say infamous forgery. Check out this page in the Catholic Encyclopedia:
newadvent.org/cathen/05118a.htm

Even most of Protestans and those that go after the Church admit that the document is a fraud. Thanks and God Bless.


#12

[quote=RikasAngel]Hello All,
I recently purchased The Da Vinci Hoax and I’m looking forward to reading it. I have read Mr. Akin’s Cracking the Da Vinci Code. It packs quite a wallup for such a small thing. I have also watched the National Geographic documentary about the Da Vinci Code, so I am familiar with most of the arguments.
In all fairness, one of the guests called to task some of Dan Brown’s “facts”. However, he also said that there were painters of Da Vinci’s period which actually had Mary Magdalen as the 13th apostle in their Last Supper paintings… If we are to be defenders of the Word of God, we must be willing to listen to and answer claims against our beloved Faith. :cool:
[/quote]

1.The Da Vinci Hoax is good. I haven’t read the Akin one.
2.I highlighted the artist part, to point out that St John was extremely young at the time of the events in the Bible–important because the supposed “Mary Magdalen” pix depend on the lack of a beard to identify the person as female…John was probably 14 or 15 at the time. So the artists painted him w/o the beard he didn’t have yet.
3.How would Christianity have made it to the 4th C w/o the Resurrection?? It would have been at best, a sect of Judaism. The empty tomb was what made believers out of people at the very start.
4.Have any of you ever attempted to read any of the gnostic gospels?? Biggest bunch of :eek: doubletalk & :rolleyes: nonsense I ever saw.
Just my 2 cents…
God bless.


#13

[quote=RikasAngel]Hello All,

I recently purchased The Da Vinci Hoax and I’m looking forward to reading it. I have read Mr. Akin’s Cracking the Da Vinci Code. It packs quite a wallup for such a small thing. I have also watched the National Geographic documentary about the Da Vinci Code, so I am familiar with most of the arguments.

The problem is that the guests on Mr. Noory’s show talked about a lot of things not mentioned in Mr. Akin’s booklet. Such as “The Donation of Constantine,” which I’ve never heard of before. As well as, the “Nazorean” cult, which suppossedly was a woman based Christianity. In all fairness, one of the guests called to task some of Dan Brown’s “facts”. However, he also said that there were painters of Da Vinci’s period which actually had Mary Magdalen as the 13th apostle in their Last Supper paintings. The guests names were: William Henry www.williamhenry.net and Laurence Gardner www.graal.co.uk if anyone wants to learn more about their claims.

As for “Coast to Coast AM” itself, I’ve been listening to Art Bell and George Noory for years now. Coast to Coast provides forums for things that the mainsatream media constantly ignores. A lot of the content may sound ridiculous to some, but I have more respect for Art and George than most of the evening news anchors. A clear example would be the fact that Korean scientists were able to make a paralyzed woman walk using Umbilical Cord Blood, and only George Noory and the AP reported the story! I understand that the show can be problematic at times, but that is why I also listen to “Catholic Answers Live” to keep me from going astray. If we are to be defenders of the Word of God, we must be willing to listen to and answer claims against our beloved Faith. :cool:
[/quote]

I have a thread on Coast to Coast, but it is buried down deep. I guess I’ll have to bring it up to the surface…
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=656958#post656958


#14

4.Have any of you ever attempted to read any of the gnostic gospels?? Biggest bunch of :eek: doubletalk & :rolleyes: nonsense I ever saw.

I have read much of the NT apocrypha. I agree with you that much of it is nonsense. It is not all bad, however. I get a lot of positive interpretation out of the Gospel of Mary Magdalene and Thomas. “All things are intertwined and interconnected”-- compartmentalization of thinking is not of God. Jesus loved Mary Magdalene-- and there was probably some jealousy involved. However, I do not believe that this love was physically expressed. Gender differences are not that important-- women have the right to have leadership positions. Those were important insights in my spiritual growth.

There should be balance in looking at these things. Don’t toss the whole thing just because some of it is “off”-- to put it mildly. I agree, that misinterpretation can be carried to the point of blasphemy, as in the Da Vinci Code. That is the reason they were not included in the Canon of Scriptures.


#15

This Da Vinci nonsense is the worst sort of tripe.

I am not Catholic but even I consider this drivel to be nonsensical and offensive.

For those that don’t mind a Protestant denouncement of the Da Vinci Code, look here: tektonics.org/davincicrude.htm


#16

These are soooooo very not accurate. They are the lies and fantasies of a deranged story-teller. DO NOT LISTEN TO GEORGE NOORY!!! I was giving him a listen one night when PJPII was ill and the guest said that God or an angel told him that the Pope would fake death and another Pope would be elected, but, the original Pope (JPII) would really be secretly touring the world… needless to say, I clicked off the station, then.


#17

[quote=sda2rc’s_wife]These are soooooo very not accurate. They are the lies and fantasies of a deranged story-teller. DO NOT LISTEN TO GEORGE NOORY!!! I was giving him a listen one night when PJPII was ill and the guest said that God or an angel told him that the Pope would fake death and another Pope would be elected, but, the original Pope (JPII) would really be secretly touring the world… needless to say, I clicked off the station, then.
[/quote]


#18

I find Coast to Coast to be very entertaining with the exception of shows like these. As for astrinity, I can’t believe you didn’t want to hear what Father Wingate had to say about Pope JPII. His trumpeters mission site is quite interesting. LOL I think these shows are fine and sometimes good to listen too. My husband suggested they get Robert Sungenis(from CAI) on. I wouldn’t, however, suggest this program to the gullible.


#19

[quote=cantrell]I’ve not read the Da Vinci Code, but the book Angels and Demons (by the same author) is the most worthless, anti-Catholic piece of garbage that I’ve ever read.
[/quote]

I’ve got to disagree. Angels and Demons painted the church in a pretty postive light. I didn’t like the ending, where the Pope-to-be created the whole scenerio, but other than that it was a pretty good work of fiction.


#20

I am just sad to know that this controversy is reaching so many people and confusing them and leading them astray. I am a student-teacher in a Catholic school and was attending my school on the designated day, it just so happened to be after a television channel discussed the Da Vinci Code. When i was asked if i believed it i said “No” quite firmly only to have a few students pipe up and say “I DO Miss!” Of course many of them did not but it is sad that those as young as 11 are being deluded… If we were to believe all the controversy then why is Jesus really not a Buddhist monk as some suggest. Please pray for my students and all those who are confused and mislead.


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