Darwin: "the New Zealander... compares his future fate with that of the native rat no


#1

Darwin, chapter 7 - “On the Races of Man,” two paragraphs in the section "On the Extinction of the Races of Man"
literature.org/authors/darwin-charles/the-descent-of-man/chapter-07.html

 "Extinction follows chiefly from the competition of tribe with 
 tribe, and race with race.  Various checks are always in 
 action, serving to keep down the numbers of each savage 
 tribe,-- such as periodical famines, nomadic habits and the 
 consequent deaths of infants, prolonged suckling, wars, 
 accidents, sickness, licentiousness, the stealing of 
 women, infanticide, and especially lessened fertility.  If 
 any one of these checks increases in power, even 

 slightly, the tribe thus affected tends to decrease; and 
 when of two adjoining tribes one becomes less numerous 
 and less powerful than the other, the contest is soon 
 settled by war, slaughter, cannibalism, slavery, and 
 absorption.  Even when a weaker tribe is not thus abruptly 
 swept away, if it once begins to decrease, it generally 
 goes on decreasing until it becomes extinct.*
 * Gerland, ibid., s. 12, gives facts in support of this 
 statement.
 ==
 Finally, although the gradual decrease and ultimate 
 extinction of the races of man is a highly complex 
 problem, depending on many causes which differ in 
 different places and at different times; it is the same 
 problem as that presented by the extinction of one of the 
 higher animals-- of the fossil horse, for instance, which 
 disappeared from South America, soon afterwards to be 
 replaced, within the same districts, by countless troups of 
 the Spanish horse.  The New Zealander seems conscious 
 of this parallelism, for he compares his future fate with 

 that of the native rat now almost exterminated by the 
 European rat.  Though the difficulty is great to our 
 imagination, and really great, if we wish to ascertain the 
 precise causes and their manner of action, it ought not to 
 be so to our reason, as long as we keep steadily in mind 
 that the increase of each species and each race is 
 constantly checked in various ways; so that if any new 
 check, even a slight one, be superadded, the race will 
 surely decrease in number; and decreasing numbers will 
 sooner or later lead to extinction; the end, in most cases, 
 being promptly determined by the inroads of conquering 
 tribes."

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Immediately following “conquering tribes” is the section “On the Formation of the Races of Man,” which has early on the first of these Darwin remarks:

  1. [1871/ 74/ 88 Darwin]“Europeans and Hindoos… belong to the same Aryan stock… Jews… belong to the Semitic stock”
  2. [1872 Darwin]“Blushing is evident in all the Aryan nations of Europe… The
    Semitic races blush freely, as might have been expected, from their
    general similitude to the Aryans.”
  3. [Darwin]"Dr. Saviotti in… 1871… remarks that it more frequently
    occurs in prognathous skulls, not of the Aryan race, than in others"
    groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1132942108.117285.130610%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com

Compare the “On the Extinction of the Races of Man” paragraphs with Hitler’s war against Jews.


#2

Compare the Darwin paragraphs with these Hitler extracts:
hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv1ch04.html

“The urge to preserve the species is the first cause for the
formation of human communities; thus the state is a
national organism
==
the will to preserve the species and race.
==
the preservation of the existence of a species
presupposes a spirit of sacrifice in the individual.
==
the sacrifice of personal existence is necessary to secure
the preservation of the species. Thus, the most sensible
prerequisite for the formation and preservation of a state
is the presence of a certain feeling of cohesion based on
similarity of nature and species, and a willingness to
stake everything on it with all possible means
==
The formation of a state, originally at least, will occur
through the exercise of these qualities, and in the
subsequent struggle for self-preservation those nations
will be defeated-- that is, will fall a prey to subjugation and
thus sooner or later die out which in the mutual struggle
possess the smallest share of heroic virtues, or are not
equal to the lies and trickery of the hostile parasite.”

Darwin again:

 "the contest is soon settled by war, slaughter, cannibalism, 
 slavery, and absorption.  Even when a weaker tribe is not 
 thus abruptly swept away, if it once begins to decrease, 
 it generally goes on decreasing until it becomes extinct.
 == if any new
 check, even a slight one, be superadded, the race will 
 surely decrease in number; and decreasing numbers will 
 sooner or later lead to extinction; the end, in most cases, 
 being promptly determined by the inroads of conquering 
 tribes."

#3

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Hitler & Darwin on
[Hitler & Darwin]"master[s]"
over
[Darwin]"subjugated… men"
having
[Darwin]"utility to their masters"
groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1135100164.057260.78490%40o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com

Darwin: [Greg]"the careless, squalid, unaspiring Irishman multiplies like rabbits"
groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1135088486.532238.194930%40g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

Hitler embraced Darwinian natural selection
groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1129143372.689763.127020%40g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

Darwin in the 6th edition of Origin on [Darwin]“survival of the fittest” and the [Darwin]"struggle for life"
google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1132161340.121874.63970%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

2004 Kater
groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1126752603.953619.262940%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
Himmler, a former chicken farmer…, was ruled by very
strong beliefs regarding the application of breeding
theories to humans-- by way of positive selection for the
"Aryans" and negative selection for their natural enemies,
the Slavs, Gypsies, and Jews.

Goebbels diary entry for 13 May 1943
groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1120450591.444214.186670%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
"One might well ask why are there any Jews in the world order?
That would be exactly like asking why are there potato bugs?
Nature is dominated by the law of struggle. There will always
be parasites who will spur this struggle on and intensify the
process of selection between the strong and the weak. The
principle of struggle dominates also in human life. One must
merely know the laws of this struggle to be able to face it. …

In nature life always takes measures against parasites; in the life
of nations that is not always the case. From this fact the Jewish
peril actually stems. There is therefore no other recourse left
for modern nations except to exterminate the Jew…
…we are forever members of the Aryan race. … Aboriginal
man, the Fuehrer believes, did not know the lie…
The nations that have been the first to see through the Jew and
have been the first to fight him are going to take his place in the
domination of the world."

Darwin on certain “distinct races” of humans being "distinct species"
groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1134742746.958656.6900%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com

1859 Darwin vs. the Judeo-Christian conception of the unity of man
groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1120016676.023811.113660%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

Trotha, in
Darwin, T.H. Huxley, Haeckel, Trotha, Goebbels, Hitler, Marx, O’Hair
groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1133186735.613068.108090%40g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

Hitler’s actions make sense given his atheism and eugenic, social Darwinist vision
groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1134145559.645139.229550%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com

Multi-Pronged Role of Darwinian Thought in Shoah’s Arrival
google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1132080322.482544.299440%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com


#4

I’m curious - why do you mention this in the apologetics forum of a Catholic website? Do you have a point to make?


#5

[EnterTheBowser]“I’m curious - why do you mention this in the apologetics forum of a Catholic website?”

Is there a better forum for discussion of social Darwinism?
Many Catholics consider themselves theistic Darwinists.
Darwinian thought is garbage.

Essay on Problems with Darwin’s Theory of Natural Selection
groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.LNX.4.10A.B3.10005310900310.17702-100000%40jabba.gl.umbc.edu

historical background to rise and fall of the Synthetic Euphoria; 1936 A. Franklin Shull
groups.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0403271329.1e569adf%40posting.google.com

Multi-Pronged Role of Darwinian Thought in Shoah’s Arrival
google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1132080322.482544.299440%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

Hitler’s actions make sense given his atheism and eugenic, social Darwinist vision
groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1134145559.645139.229550%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com

[EnterTheBowser]"Do you have a point to make?"
If you see anything you disagree with, please let me know, and we can perhaps discuss it.


#6

Social Darwinism is, as you’ve said, bunk. No argument there. Was that the point you intended to make?


#7

[quote=EnterTheBowser]Social Darwinism is, as you’ve said, bunk.
[/quote]

How so?

"Was that the point you intended to make?"
I decline to answer.


#8

[quote=davidford]How so?
[/quote]

Why is social darwinism foolish? Because it is based on racism and not science, perhaps? Because it is bad science - pseudoscience - used to justify immoral actions?

"Was that the point you intended to make?"
I decline to answer.

What was your point, then?


#9

[quote=EnterTheBowser]Why is social darwinism foolish? Because it is based on racism and not science, perhaps? Because it is bad science
[/quote]

Do you think any of the experiments Nazi medical personnel conducted on concentration camp prisoners were:
“not science”?
“bad science”?
“science”?


#10

[quote=davidford]Do you think any of the experiments Nazi medical personnel conducted on concentration camp prisoners were:
“not science”?
“bad science”?
“science”?
[/quote]

Yes. Shooting gasoline into the veins of pregnant women? That’s not exactly science. I still don’t know what the point of this thread is. Do you have an argument to make?


#11

This is disgusting that you use racism and a connection to Hitler and Nazism as a way to disprove Darwinian thought. What you have described has nothing to do with the physical aspect of evolution, the scientific theory of evolution, or anything like that.

I believe this would be a classic example of an appeal to emotion. Even if Nazism used Darwin’s system, then how does that disprove evolution (which is what I assume you are trying to do, please correct me if wrong)? The fact that an unseemly group or person subscribed to a theory does not prove it false.


#12

[quote=Ianjo99]This is disgusting that you use racism and a connection to Hitler and Nazism as a way to disprove Darwinian thought. What you have described has nothing to do with the physical aspect of evolution, the scientific theory of evolution, or anything like that.

I believe this would be a classic example of an appeal to emotion. Even if Nazism used Darwin’s system, then how does that disprove evolution (which is what I assume you are trying to do, please correct me if wrong)? The fact that an unseemly group or person subscribed to a theory does not prove it false.
[/quote]

I suggest that you read the Arichitects of the Culture of Death. Then you will see exactly how Darwin leads to Sanger in the US and Hilter in Germany. If humans can be reduced to animals than they have no God given worth and can be destroyed by genocide, euthanasia, and abortion. Darwin is one of the leaders in the Culture of Death.


#13

[quote=MommaKat]I suggest that you read the Arichitects of the Culture of Death. Then you will see exactly how Darwin leads to Sanger in the US and Hilter in Germany. If humans can be reduced to animals than they have no God given worth and can be destroyed by genocide, euthanasia, and abortion. Darwin is one of the leaders in the Culture of Death.
[/quote]

It seems that you have missed the point of lanjo99’s post. lanjo noted that even if evolutionary theory led to Nazism and the Holocaust, that is no evidence for the truth or falsity of evolutionary theory.


#14

[quote=EnterTheBowser]lanjo noted that even if evolutionary theory led to Nazism and the Holocaust, that is no evidence for the truth or falsity of evolutionary theory.
[/quote]

Do you think “evolutionary theory led to Nazism and the Holocaust”?

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Multi-Pronged Role of Darwinian Thought in Shoah’s Arrival
google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1132080322.482544.299440%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

your freethought/ atheism conversion experience?
groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1135012135.008700.163480%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

Hitler’s actions make sense given his atheism and eugenic, social Darwinist vision
groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1134145559.645139.229550%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com


#15

[quote=MommaKat]If humans can be reduced to animals than they have no God given worth and can be destroyed by genocide, euthanasia, and abortion. Darwin is one of the leaders in the Culture of Death.
[/quote]

Darwin on selection of Spartan children
groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1135004225.246782.327080%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

1979 Schaeffer & Koop on the a-moral implications of atheism
groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-b1c67abe.0504061225.4c675814%40posting.google.com

1868 Haeckel, 2003 Dawkins, 1997 George Williams, 1995 Dennett: Darwinist atheists/ materialists downgrading the value of human life
groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-399aluF5uql89U1%40individual.net

Haeckel on murdering the disabled
groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-3a8etdF65smnrU4%40individual.net

Haeckel and Buchner and a Darwinian a-moral climate
groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1118315214.069039.280490%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com

1916/ 1922 Nordau; infanticide, slavery, and genocide
groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1132847220.475151.206790%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com

From
1997 Wesley Smith on Germany’s slippery slope slide from devaluing
some human life to a little euthanasia/ killing to mass killings
groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-3abe1cF6ac7t2U1%40individual.net
That case came to their
attention in late 1938. A baby had been born with birth
defects: Baby Knauer was blind and had a leg and part of
an arm missing. The parents were distraught and,
accepting the general value system of their time, were
deeply ashamed to have brought a useless eater into the
world. They wrote requesting permission to have their
child “put to sleep.” Hitler was quite interested in the
case and sent one of his personal physicians, Karl
Rudolph Brandt, to investigate. Brandt’s instructions

from the Fuhrer were to verify the facts of the baby’s
condition and, if true, to assure the child’s doctors and
her parents that if she was killed, no one would face
punishment or liability. Brandt was then to witness the
euthanasia and report back to Hitler. The doctors in the
case who met with Brandt agreed that there was “no
justification for keeping the child alive,” and Baby
Knauer soon became one of the first victims of the
Holocaust.^27

1939
Wesley Smith in his 1997 Forced Exit: The Slippery Slope from
Assisted Suicide to Legalized Murder

groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-3abe1cF6ac7t2U1%40individual.net
In early 1939, children born with birth defects or with
congenital diseases began to be killed under the
euthanasia program. These unfortunate children were
admitted to medical clinics by their doctors, where they
would be euthanized. Most of these children were
voluntarily turned over to medical authorities by their
own parents; some (but certainly not all) knew, or at least
suspected, that their disabled children were being sent to

their deaths.  New reporting rules made it mandatory for
midwives and doctors to notify authorities when a baby
was born with birth defects.  Once the referees
determined that the children were eligible for euthanasia,
they were killed either by intentional starvation or an
overdose of a drug, most typically a sedative called
Luminal.  The euphemism of choice for this butchery was
"treatment."
It wasn't long before the list of those eligible to be killed
expanded.

#16

[quote=Ianjo99]What you have described has nothing to do with the physical aspect of evolution, the scientific theory of evolution, or anything like that.
[/quote]

What exactly is “the scientific theory of evolution”?
Is there an un-“scientific theory of evolution”?

Meaning of “evolution”?

legerdemain in the use of the word 'evolution’
google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1132102419.915797.111840%40o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com


#17

[quote=EnterTheBowser]Shooting gasoline into the veins of pregnant women? That’s not exactly science.
[/quote]

I’m exploring the meaning of “science.”

Do you consider shooting chemicals into women at Auschwitz to make them unfertile/ sterile “science”?


#18

[quote=davidford]I’m exploring the meaning of “science.”

Do you consider shooting chemicals into women at Auschwitz to make them unfertile/ sterile “science”?
[/quote]

I just said, “No.”


#19

[quote=davidford]What exactly is “the scientific theory of evolution”?
Is there an un-“scientific theory of evolution”?

Meaning of “evolution”?

legerdemain in the use of the word 'evolution’
google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1132102419.915797.111840%40o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com
[/quote]

I don’t really care what “legerdemain” has to say about evolution. I said scientific theory of evolution because it has to do with what happens “in science”. Being a “scientific” theory means that it is inherently different from a theory in normal use. A scientific theory is one normally backed by a great deal of evidence and support.

Theory: talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA201.html

Evolution means: (as from Webster’s Dictionary)

Biology.
[list=1]
*]Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
*]The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny.
[/list]I think the point you are missing is; even if Darwin wrote a three hundred page article supporting eugenics, Nazism, and Margret Sanger, IT WOULDN"T MATTER. Scientists have done a myriad of experiments and a large number of research to conclude that evolution is the most likely the process of nature.

I have no idea why you keep throwing articles about the supposed “connection” between evolution and amoral activites. Do you not get that even a direct connection indicates NOTHING about its scientific relevance?

talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA002_1.html

Hitler and Darwin: talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA006_1.html

Survival of the fittest: talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA002.html

Do you think it’s any coincidence that pretty much all Universities in the world teach evolution from Freshman level up? In science the debate is pretty much closed that evolution exists. Science isn’t going to change because nonscientists don’t want it to be true.


#20

Q: Do you consider shooting chemicals into women at Auschwitz to make them unfertile/ sterile “science”?
Answer by EnterTheBowser: I just said, “No.”

Q: How come you don’t consider shooting chemicals into women at Auschwitz to make them unfertile/ sterile “science”-- what’s your reasoning?

Q: Do you consider T.H. Huxley’s 1890 essay “The Aryan Question and Pre-Historic Man” ‘scientific’?

It’s at
aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/CE7/Aryan.html
He talks quite a bit therein about a [Huxley on 284 of my Huxley
book copy]“blond, long-headed race,” i.e. [Huxley on 305]"an Aryan
race."
In a 29 September 1890 letter to Joseph Hooker, Huxley called that
essay “scientific”:
Huxley, Leonard, editor. 1901. Life and Letters of Thomas Henry
Huxley: by his son Leonard Huxley
, in two volumes (NY: D. Appleton
and Company), 539pp. and 541pp. On 286 of volume 2:

 "Providence has, I believe, specially devolved on
 Gladstone, Gore, and Co. the function of keeping "'ome
 'appy" for me.
 I really can't give up tormenting _ces droles_.
 However, I have been toiling at a tremendously scientific
 article about the "Aryan question" absolutely devoid of
 blasphemy."

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