Darwinism in schools?


#1

What are your thoughts on it? Apologies in advanced if I've posted this in the wrong section.

To make an analogy of this, I feel like teaching Darwinism is like teaching us about the various religions (ancient or otherwise); it is our choice to believe or not to believe, and though they might be implying Darwinism is the ultimate truth they make it clear to children that it is simply a theory and is taught for the sake of science.


#2

[quote="Tigress, post:1, topic:278900"]
What are your thoughts on it? Apologies in advanced if I've posted this in the wrong section.

To make an analogy of this, I feel like teaching Darwinism is like teaching us about the various religions (ancient or otherwise); it is our choice to believe or not to believe, and though they might be implying Darwinism is the ultimate truth they make it clear to children that it is simply a theory and is taught for the sake of science.

[/quote]

Intelligent design should be taught next to Darwinism. Evolution is not fact. So, whats wrong with teaching another supposed non factual "theory".


#3

That's interesting, I never thought of it that way.

I think it has more of a direct connection to the topics students learn in their Living Environment class (I'm currently in ninth grade so if you have any questions on what we're learning and how it's being introduced to us I'd be happy to answer :)), such as cellular division. Intellectual design is briefly discussed in social studies classes, but not labeled fact nor fiction. The key word there, though, is briefly.


#4

[quote="Tigress, post:1, topic:278900"]
What are your thoughts on it? Apologies in advanced if I've posted this in the wrong section.

To make an analogy of this, I feel like teaching Darwinism is like teaching us about the various religions (ancient or otherwise); it is our choice to believe or not to believe, and though they might be implying Darwinism is the ultimate truth they make it clear to children that it is simply a theory and is taught for the sake of science.

[/quote]

The board here doesn't let evolution threads go this will be taken down soon.

Personally I believe evolution is correct and it doesn't violate Catholic Teaching.

But I don't want to discuss to much on a ban topic on the Forums


#5

Evolution is one of the most supported scientific theories out there. A scientific theory is often defined as something with much evidence to support it. It's a shame that people put down God's power by saying evolution is impossible.


#6

[quote="Espero, post:5, topic:278900"]
Evolution is one of the most supported scientific theories out there. A scientific theory is often defined as something with much evidence to support it. It's a shame that people put down God's power by saying evolution is impossible.

[/quote]

Well said.


#7

[quote="johnnyjones, post:2, topic:278900"]
Intelligent design should be taught next to Darwinism. Evolution is not fact. So, whats wrong with teaching another supposed non factual "theory".

[/quote]

I don't blame you. Today's evidence doesn't really cut it. If you look at the past, when we as humans used today's evidence, we thought the Earth was the center of the universe.


#8

[quote="Espero, post:5, topic:278900"]
Evolution is one of the most supported scientific theories out there. A scientific theory is often defined as something with much evidence to support it. It's a shame that people put down God's power by saying evolution is impossible.

[/quote]

what's more upsetting is when people claim that evolution is proof God doesn't exist, or at the very least that He didn't create us. They grasp for straws where none are to be found. Calling an orange a banana doesn't make it a banana you know?


#9

Intelligent design is not a science (when a divine creator is introduced the subject begins to deal with religion), and tax-funded schools should teach science in science class. Private schools are different. America is in big trouble with regard to math and science, and yet people want to take away from it even more. I am concerned for the future of this country. And anyone who has studied evolution extensively at the university level (or even through self teaching) should be able to understand how necessary it is as a foundation for further learning in the Biological sciences.


#10

I'm fine with public schools teaching ID alongside evolution.

Just so long as Sunday School and religion classes teach evolution alongside ID.

Hey, equal time means equal time, folks.


#11

Evolution is the scientific theory that currently has the most support among the scientific community, so it makes sense that it should be taught as the scientific theory that currently has the most support. Science classes should also teach that no scientific theory, no matter how well supported or how highly thought of is ever actually proven, and that this applies to evolution (and yes, even to theories of gravity before we get one of those answers).

Intelligent design does not have so much support, so it probably shouldn't be taught in schools, for the simple reason that non-biologists (meaning not me either) don't really have the tools to evaluate the details of the arguments involved. In presenting this idea without going through the standard scientific channels, you essentially get a lot of people making uninformed guesses and then arguing about them.

As an example, I could give a standard class of high schoolers who haven't had a physics class a brief over view of the inherent assumptions of Newtonian Physics, then a brief overview of Quantum Physics or Relativity (using different names so that they wouldn't just recognize the words and associate them with what they've heard is true), and then ask which one they thought was true. Chances are, unless they've had outside exposure, right about the time I start telling them that electrons can spin, sort of, but only with one "speed" in each of two directions about any given axis, or that position really isn't a fundamental quantity as such, but rather there's a certain probability that you will see the effects of any given object in any particular region of space, I'd lose them all.

Granted, I could site studies and tests, but unless they've had exposure to the science, the tests won't really mean much to them, and they'd have to trust me when I said a certain number showing up on an oscilloscope meant that nearly everything we'd intuitively guess about the universe is wrong.

My point is, at least at the beginning of scientific learning, we have to accept (to a reasonable extent) what we learn on the reasonable authority of our teachers, because we simply don't have time to reinvent the wheel for every single scientific theory we come across in high school. This places a burden on the teachers to only present as reasonably well supported theories those theories which are in fact reasonably supported by the scientific community as a whole, since chances are we will assume that whatever we learn in school has at least as much weight to it as such a theory would have.


#12

To my knowledge, the Catholic Church does not oppose the teaching of evolution; nor does it hold to the so-called 'Young Earth' doctrine. This is largely an issue for fundamentalist protestants, not Catholics.

There is overwhelming scientific support for the theory of evolution. Science deals with empirical data, not metaphysics. One cannot prove the existence of God via the scientific method.

The public schools have no business teaching religion. We live in a country that separates religion from the state. Catholics should celebrate this fact. Prior to the passage of the First Amendment, Catholics suffered varying forms of political disabilities in every one of the 13 Original states. John Carroll, the first American Archbishop, was a great supporter of the separation of church and state.

Personally, I do believe that God created the Heavens and the Earth, but I do not believe that Genesis is a literal account of how He did so.


#13

Intelligent Design should be taught alongside evolution! We should teach all the theories.

This is why we should also teach that aliens (not the Egyptians) built the pyramids! We can't prove conclusively that they didn't! It's just a theory!

We should also teach that diseases are caused by an imbalance of humors and require leeches. Germ theory is just that: a theory!

Teach that all life but 2 of every animal (no plants) was wiped out 4,000 years ago (despite the fact that no other culture seemed to notice)!

We should also teach, as the Australian Aboriginees believe, that the Sun Mother created man to hide her shame from the Father of All Spirits, after she let the animals pick their own shapes, and one chose to be the platypus.
Teach all the theories!

We must teach all the theories!

Note: As per normal, my disagreement is not on a particular stance, but against a particular argument.
The argument "teach all the theories," if taken literally, would involve teaching a bunch of stupid stuff. What you mean to say is "teach the theory I happen to believe is right."

If you want ID to be taught, make a case for its correctness over (or equivalent to) other stances.


#14

[quote="Inquiringperson, post:7, topic:278900"]
I don't blame you. Today's evidence doesn't really cut it. If you look at the past, when we as humans used today's evidence, we thought the Earth was the center of the universe.

[/quote]

The scientific method that we use today is vastly superior to the myth led ideals of yonder. It is unfair to compare the two, each had a purpose. We should be grateful, but realize that with our technology, we can realize what is truly out there without guessing


#15

[quote="martininthefiel, post:12, topic:278900"]
To my knowledge, the Catholic Church does not oppose the teaching of evolution; nor does it hold to the so-called 'Young Earth' doctrine. This is largely an issue for fundamentalist protestants, not Catholics.

There is overwhelming scientific support for the theory of evolution. Science deals with empirical data, not metaphysics. One cannot prove the existence of God via the scientific method.

**The public schools have no business teaching religion. **We live in a country that separates religion from the state. Catholics should celebrate this fact. Prior to the passage of the First Amendment, Catholics suffered varying forms of political disabilities in every one of the 13 Original states. John Carroll, the first American Archbishop, was a great supporter of the separation of church and state.

Personally, I do believe that God created the Heavens and the Earth, but I do not believe that Genesis is a literal account of how He did so.

[/quote]

Well said.

Why so many are opposed to the theory of evolution is beyond me. It's science. Science does not negate religion, and vice versa.

One is physical, one is spiritual.

God created everything...and evolution happens because he wants it to. ;)


#16

[quote="LJH_80, post:13, topic:278900"]
Intelligent Design should be taught alongside evolution! We should teach all the theories.

This is why we should also teach that aliens (not the Egyptians) built the pyramids! We can't prove conclusively that they didn't! It's just a theory!

We should also teach that diseases are caused by an imbalance of humors and require leeches. Germ theory is just that: a theory!

Teach that all life but 2 of every animal (no plants) was wiped out 4,000 years ago (despite the fact that no other culture seemed to notice)!

We should also teach, as the Australian Aboriginees believe, that the Sun Mother created man to hide her shame from the Father of All Spirits, after she let the animals pick their own shapes, and one chose to be the platypus.
Teach all the theories!

We must teach all the theories!

[/quote]

I was with you right up to the point I realised that you were being facetious. How disappointing.

I was going to suggest we also teach turtles all the way down.


#17

[quote="underacloud, post:16, topic:278900"]
I was with you right up to the point I realised that you were being facetious. How disappointing.

I was going to suggest we also teach turtles all the way down.

[/quote]

Or Terrapins!

Only people who attended the University of Maryland, College Park would believe that turtles are the foundation of the universe.


#18

[quote="martininthefiel, post:17, topic:278900"]
Or Terrapins!

Only people who attended the University of Maryland, College Park would believe that turtles are the foundation of the universe.

[/quote]

Well, I didn't say it was a good theory, nor widely held, nor backed by credible science, but if we're going to teach intelligent design alongside evolution, I think it's deserving of some airtime.


#19

[quote="martininthefiel, post:12, topic:278900"]
To my knowledge, the Catholic Church does not oppose the teaching of evolution; nor does it hold to the so-called 'Young Earth' doctrine. This is largely an issue for fundamentalist protestants, not Catholics.

There is overwhelming scientific support for the theory of evolution. Science deals with empirical data, not metaphysics. One cannot prove the existence of God via the scientific method.

The public schools have no business teaching religion. We live in a country that separates religion from the state. Catholics should celebrate this fact. Prior to the passage of the First Amendment, Catholics suffered varying forms of political disabilities in every one of the 13 Original states. John Carroll, the first American Archbishop, was a great supporter of the separation of church and state.

Personally, I do believe that God created the Heavens and the Earth, but I do not believe that Genesis is a literal account of how He did so.

[/quote]

Well said. :thumbsup:

For me personally God is the only logical reason Earth went from pre-biotic to rich in life.


#20

[quote="Espero, post:5, topic:278900"]
Evolution is one of the most supported scientific theories out there. A scientific theory is often defined as something with much evidence to support it. It's a shame that people put down God's power by saying evolution is impossible.

[/quote]

If evolution wants to be entirely plausible it shouldn't go against the second law of thermodynamics.


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