Daughter dating boy with "two dads"

#101

I most certainly would go. I eat with sinners all the time, and they eat with me. Don’t we all fall into that catagory? Or are some posters without sin?

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#102

[quote="Nec5, post:26, topic:195136"]
Most of you seem to have a misconception about human psychology and evil. How do you think the world has become so corrupted so quickly? Because people like yourself downplayed these types of acts. Then they become "less evil" or a "fact of life". Then they become less of a big deal. Then they become accepted and celebrated. It doesn't happen all at once, but it inevitably happens as tolerance builds. Sin is never to be tolerated; it's quite absurd to advise parents to allow their kid to freely mingle with a homosexual household. I wonder if you would feel the same if it was a polygamist household with 1 guy and 4 wives, or how about a brother/sister marriage?

No one is throwing stones at the boy. He supports his father's gay lifestyle. He refuses to change his view. That's his choice and his sin.

Dating and marriage are certainly not the arena to change a man/woman's heart. The legions of failed marriages are testament to this naive view of "I will change my beloved's heart".

There is a great deal in the Bible about shunning unrepentant sinners. Why? Because these folks seek to twist your view of God match their own worldly view. Satan delights in this inability to recognize and defeat evil.

At the same time, we are to offer forgiveness if they ask for it.

I should point out that this naive (don't judge) view of evil prevalent in Christianity these days has been tried over the last several decades. Judge the results for yourself. Europe is gone, and America has one foot in the grave of immorality. Stand for what is right. Remember that Christ called the unrepentant evildoers (Pharisees,Sadducees) of his day hypocrites and turned away from them.

And again, the comparison of homosexuality with things like minor lies or divorce isn't even close. It is, in effect, a twisted (the bible uses abomination) double violation of moral law. You have a grossly unnatural act coupled with an instance of fornication, and in this case an indoctrination of a child. There was a time when such actions would have been shunned; now look at all of society. Look at yourselves. We are to accept everything.

Please stop using the "don't judge or throw stones" routine when you are ignorant of evil. With all the tolerance these days, it's practically a smorgasbord for tempters and deceivers.

[/quote]

:thumbsup: Totally!

Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen said:

"America, it is said, is suffering from intolerance — it is not. It is suffering from tolerance. Tolerance of right and wrong, truth and error, virtue and evil, Christ and chaos. Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded. Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil ... a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance applies only to persons ... never to truth."

No one is advocating "blaming the boy for his father's sins", they are simply saying if he's ok with it and your daughter likes him (btw she's old enough for marriage soon-disaster) he could end up converting her not the other way around on this issue. Remember scripture says "BAD COMPANY CORRUPTS GOOD MORALS"-1 Corinthians 15:33. Jesus may have eaten with prostitutes and such but it was to teach them the right way not to accept their sin. They are in sin period and having his daughter around them is just going to get the "oh they are nice and normal but they just like the same sex that's all" attitude going. I've seen it a million times personally by people. Pray for them, but don't "hang out" with them. She will converted to their view...

DoT

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#103

Julianna,

I believe it was you who felt the need to hammer Nec5 with the catechism and yet you believe that homosexuals should have civil unions ie live in sin damning their souls to hell.

So let me get this straight you hammer a fellow Catholic that DARES to practice and advocate what the church teaches on homosexaulity with the CCC (trying to say that not having dinner is discrimination) yet you don't even follow simple church teaching on homosexuality in the fact that it's gravely sinful and soul damning ie you are for civil marriage? So do you REALLY think that civil unions while being non discriminatory are somehow with church teaching on the graveness of homosexual acts and such??? Civil marriages advocate homosexual unions ie sex. THAT IS AGAINST the Church teaching. Don't try to slam on someone with the CCC (really a misuse of it) when you don't follow the Church's teaching yourself.

Are you kidding me? :rolleyes:

DoT

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#104

[quote="defenderoftruth, post:102, topic:195136"]
: She will converted to their view...

[/quote]

and then what??? will she become gay too? :rolleyes:

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#105

No (she won't become "gay"). I think you know exactly what I mean (really let's be grown ups shall we) she'll think homosexuality is ok and be against her Church and her God because they are "nice". Not that all homosexuals are mean but the more you hang out with them the more you will be on their side of the fence on homosexual issues.

Again I've seen it happen before, people that are against sodomy hang out with "nice" homosexuals that try to act like everything's normal despite their sin and then the person that's wasn't ok with homosexuality gets converted to the "sodomy is ok because they are nice "normal" people" view.

DoT

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#106

[quote="Catholic90, post:13, topic:195136"]
So a Catholic should NEVER date a non-Catholic??

[/quote]

Not in the romantic sense of the term, no. We date in order to discern for marriage. Since it's usually a bad idea to marry a non-Catholic, there is no need for further discernment, and no need to date.

If my Catholic boyfriend had not dated and married me, I never would have become Catholic.......

Since God was calling you, you would have become Catholic in some other way, if he had not dated and married you. :)

Are you going to permit your children to date non-Catholics, in the hopes of converting their dates to the Catholic faith? Or will you rather that they date Catholics, so that they can be affirmed in their faith even as they are out having fun together?

People fall out of love just as helplessly as they fall into love. Self-control is important.

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Dating a Non-Catholic?
#107

[quote="jmcrae, post:106, topic:195136"]
Not in the romantic sense of the term, no. We date in order to discern for marriage. Since it's usually a bad idea to marry a non-Catholic, there is no need for further discernment, and no need to date.

Since God was calling you, you would have become Catholic in some other way, if he had not dated and married you. :)

Are you going to permit your children to date non-Catholics, in the hopes of converting their dates to the Catholic faith? Or will you rather that they date Catholics, so that they can be affirmed in their faith even as they are out having fun together?

People fall out of love just as helplessly as they fall into love. Self-control is important.

[/quote]

:thumbsup: Totally agree! Dating is prep for marriage otherwise it just gets kids into trouble IMO. Youth groups are the way to go for youth (not the age of marrying) to keep them from pairing up and getting into trouble. We are teaching our daughter that dating is prep for marriage it's not a "fun thing to do" like some hobby. And the youth group should be one of their own faith.

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#108

[quote="defenderoftruth, post:105, topic:195136"]
No (she won't become "gay"). I think you know exactly what I mean (really let's be grown ups shall we) she'll think homosexuality is ok and be against her Church and her God because they are "nice". Not that all homosexuals are mean but the more you hang out with them the more you will be on their side of the fence on homosexual issues.

Again I've seen it happen before, people that are against sodomy hang out with "nice" homosexuals that try to act like everything's normal despite their sin and then the person that's wasn't ok with homosexuality gets converted to the "sodomy is ok because they are nice "normal" people" view.

DoT

[/quote]

She is not too young to learn that people who indulge in serious sin do not grow horns and pointy tails. They may still be not only decent but exceedingly generous in other ways. Mafia dons are perfectly capable of loving their grandchildren, generously donating to seminaries, and founding hospitals for needy children. If the warping of their consciences was sufficiently beyond their control, they may go to Heaven before those who had better consciences, and ignored them.

It is a mistake not to acknowledge the decency in people who have it, regardless of what their other faults are. It is a mistake not to acknowledge that sexual purity is not a piece of cake for anybody, and that people with SSA may have the most difficult path of all. It is a mistake not to have compassion for anyone who fails to form their conscience perfectly. We will be judged by the measure we have measured others with, after all.

Even if she were dating the son of a nasty man who divorced his first wife, abuses and shamelessly runs around on the second one, runs a crooked business, and uses none of the proceeds to fund worthy causes, that wouldn't change the fact that a son can't choose his father. That is out of the son's hands. It would not be a sin for a son to love and want to respect his father, even a father like that.

If the son is worthy, you don't have to pretend to agree with his father's solution to his SSA, but don't hold the parents against him and don't make the father out to be a more spectacular sinner than the father who will not remain pure, even though marriage is an option, or whose faults are hidden.

Unless we are asked, we very rarely have to comment on the virtues and vices of others. We can usually keep our opinions to ourselves. If pressed, speak of the father as someone who may be doing his best, but, if his roommate is a lover, has a serious defect in conscience. Acknowledge that society offers very little help to people who want to live in purity with their SSA. If he has obvious virtues, acknowledge those, too, and leave it at that.

What should she say to a dinner invitation? She might say, "Is it going to bother them to know that I believe sex outside of marriage is wrong, and same-sex marriage is impossible?" If they can live with it, well, even if we eat alone, we dine with sinners. If the son thinks sex outside of marriage is OK, then that is an issue quite apart from his father!

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#109

[quote="EasterJoy, post:108, topic:195136"]
. If the son thinks sex outside of marriage is OK, then that is an issue quite apart from his father!

[/quote]

Even if the son believed that, so long as he wasn't pressuring my daughter and she was firm in her faith, I wouldn't necessarily write him off. Especially since he is willing to come to mass. That is huge IMO.

Besides, I believed all sorts of crazy things before I became a Christian. My parents were divorced, both had a steady stream of "partners" and I distinctly recall parents not allowing their children to hang out with me because of the "sins of my parents." Like any of that was in my control? Thankfully I also had examples of very loving Christians who didn't hide their faith but more importantly didn't shun me because of my family. The result of all that Jesus like love & acceptance? I am a Christian today and my life is NOTHING like where I came from. Now it's my turn to love my family despite their sins and be a good example of Christ to them.

I don't get this whole I won't eat with sinners thing. Just because I am friendly and kind to someone doesn't mean I approve of their sin. My older teenagers are certainly smart enough to distiguish between love the sinner, hate the sin. How sad that some on this board aren't.

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#110

[quote="jmcrae, post:106, topic:195136"]
Not in the romantic sense of the term, no. We date in order to discern for marriage. Since it's usually a bad idea to marry a non-Catholic, there is no need for further discernment, and no need to date.

Since God was calling you, you would have become Catholic in some other way, if he had not dated and married you. :)

Are you going to permit your children to date non-Catholics, in the hopes of converting their dates to the Catholic faith? Or will you rather that they date Catholics, so that they can be affirmed in their faith even as they are out having fun together?

People fall out of love just as helplessly as they fall into love. Self-control is important.

[/quote]

Picture this. 1955....my father brought my mother to meet his parish priest to discuss marrying my mother. My mother is "southern Baptist" born and raised. Fr. V looked into my fathers eyes and screamed at him (with my mother sitting right there) YOU KNOW BETTER! I WILL NOT APPROVE THIS MARRIAGE! My dad said, "Fine, we'll get married in her Church." End of story...no. My lil ol Italian grandmother went to see Fr. V and reminded him how many of the "Italian" immigrant pennies went into installing and polishing the beautiful oak altar rail. Next thing you know....the other priest contacted my dad and they were married in the Catholic Church. My mother had to "sign" a paper stating that she would raise us children Catholic....and they were married at the first pew vs. the at the altar rail.

My mother made sure we attended Mass and made our sacraments and attended catechism class. At First Communion time, she met with Fr. O'Connor and asked questions about what was going to take place. This was 1966.

Fast forward, Sept 1990. My brother married my sis in law in the Catholic Church...she is Protestant, Church of the Nazerene. They were married, not at the first pew, but right up in front of the priest. (our parish is a Church in the round, no altar rail)

My parents were married close to 50 yrs before my dad passed away. My mother never converted. She didn't raise us Catholc because she "signed" a paper, or because the Church "made her".....she made a promise to God and she didn't take it lightly. And Fr. V....well....guess what....he left the priesthood shortly before 1960....because he ran off with wife of a parishoner. Go figure. What goes around, comes around. :shrug:

I think we need to stop this "can't marry or date anyone from another faith" nonsense....as that was a long long time ago in a galaxy, far far away. My sister married a Methodist in the Catholic Church. We are ALL still married (my siblings and I).

As for gay marriage...take the "marriage" out of it. If Caesars law goes for "civil unions" and you have a problem with it....oh well.

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#111

Comparing homosexuality with other devout Christian Faiths is a false comparison.

As for civil unions and the role of church and state, your view of the matter typifies the modern revisionist view that progressive hold regarding the first amendment. Christianity molded and shaped a great deal of the cultural values and assumptions behind the nation’s founding. Reading just a fraction of the letters, primary sources, exchanged between the Founders prove beyond a shadow of a doubt how Christian values were considered essential, not helpful, to the survival of the republic. Homosexual civil unions are immoral and should not be tolerated or allowed. Once they are approved, other abominable actions must be equally tolerated.

For all those inclusive and tolerant folks in this thread, would you have dinner at a polygamist house or one in which a brother and sister were married? Yes, these are fair comparisons. Homosexuality, incest, and polygamy all theoretically feature loving couples/persons engaged in consensual relationships just like traditional marriages. If you are intellectually honest, you won’t pick and choose. Let’s not judge, right?

This isn’t the case of refusing to eat with a sinner. There’s a fundamental difference in the type of sinner referenced in the Bible. Christ ate with sinners, but these sinners clearly recognized that their actions were sinful. Today’s sinners, the ones you wish to tolerate, reject the entire conception of sin and in doing so, reject God. They are not people knowing that their actions are wrong and failing to stop out of weakness of heart or fear. These folks are people who will defend to the death their right to practice sin and will force society to accept it. That is a major difference and one that today’s tolerant Christians, and sadly a great deal of the Church, have failed to discern.

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#112

[quote="KenTreece, post:1, topic:195136"]
My daughter is dating a boy whose biological father is gay and who is in a same-sex relationship. The boy's dad has invited us over for dinner. I am completely uncomfortable with this situation. Any advice on how to respond?

Thank you!

[/quote]

Hate the sin, love the sinner. God still loves these people. You do not have to go in and start preaching to them. I have a friend who is gay, and I have no problem being his friend. He knows what I believe, and he appreciates the fact that I am not in his face about them.

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#113

[quote="Nec5, post:111, topic:195136"]
Comparing homosexuality with other devout Christian Faiths is a false comparison.

As for civil unions and the role of church and state, your view of the matter typifies the modern revisionist view that progressive hold regarding the first amendment. Christianity molded and shaped a great deal of the cultural values and assumptions behind the nation's founding. Reading just a fraction of the letters, primary sources, exchanged between the Founders prove beyond a shadow of a doubt how Christian values were considered essential, not helpful, to the survival of the republic. Homosexual civil unions are immoral and should not be tolerated or allowed. Once they are approved, other abominable actions must be equally tolerated.

For all those inclusive and tolerant folks in this thread, would you have dinner at a polygamist house or one in which a brother and sister were married? Yes, these are fair comparisons. Homosexuality, incest, and polygamy all theoretically feature loving couples/persons engaged in consensual relationships just like traditional marriages. If you are intellectually honest, you won't pick and choose. Let's not judge, right?

This isn't the case of refusing to eat with a sinner. There's a fundamental difference in the type of sinner referenced in the Bible. Christ ate with sinners, but these sinners clearly recognized that their actions were sinful. Today's sinners, the ones you wish to tolerate, reject the entire conception of sin and in doing so, reject God. They are not people knowing that their actions are wrong and failing to stop out of weakness of heart or fear. These folks are people who will defend to the death their right to practice sin and will force society to accept it. That is a major difference and one that today's tolerant Christians, and sadly a great deal of the Church, have failed to discern.

[/quote]

I really wish more people on this thread would say what you have...:thumbsup: I totally agree.

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#114

[quote="Julianna, post:110, topic:195136"]

As for gay marriage...take the "marriage" out of it. If Caesars law goes for "civil unions" and you have a problem with it....oh well.

[/quote]

An unjust law is not a law. Even Caesar cannot conjoin what results in a sin that cries out to Heaven for vengeance.

Caesar can validly set the speed limit, and it is still valid even if it is imprudently slow or fast. But he cannot make blasphemy lawful, or make true worship unlawful. Caesar is unable to overwrite the laws of God.

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#115

Yes, I would eat with all of the people you mentioned. Sinners are sinners… :shrug: Because here’s the kicker: I used to BE one of them. I did horrible things… sins that would make your head spin… and just like “today’s sinners” that you mentioned, I would’ve rejected the notion that I was doing anything wrong, and would’ve defended my RIGHT to live however I wanted. I lived like that for years… until Christ got a hold of my heart.

Did Jesus knock on my door to set me straight? Of course not. No Bible came down from heaven landing in my lap and I most certainly didn’t wake up one Sunday and decide to attend Church. That’s not how God works. Instead, He put wonderful Christians in my life who LOVINGLY shared their faith with me. Mostly by example… not by preaching that I was sinner bound for hell. They shared what God meant to them… how much He loved them, and how much He loved me… sins and all. They didn’t need to tell me that there was a better way… I could SEE by their example they had “something” I didn’t it. Was it joy? peace? I wasn’t sure… but I wanted it. And when I asked, they told me how to get it. THAT is how God works.

I would WELCOME the opportunity to dine with sinners & unbelievers. Bring it on! Let ME be Christ to them. This isn’t some private club we belong to. People can’t be expected to clean up their act and ask for forgiveness BEFORE we will initiate contact. How ridiculous is that? If the Christians in my past had done that where would I be today???

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#116

Amen!

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#117

At this point the OP has probably prayerfully made a decision - it would be nice to hear back from the OP and find out what he did and how it went.

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#118

People had better have a relatively cleaned up act before they date my kids, if I ever get married and have any. Using dates as a means of conversion and teaching is a terrible idea. Friendship can do that; not dating and certainly not marriage, which is the ultimate aim of dating.

I wonder what you would say about that passage in the New Testament where Paul orders a “sinner” to be cast out for incest. Was he in the wrong? Or how about Christ calling people “You hypocrites” to their face? Was he wrong to be mean and call them names? Or Christ’s prescription for dealing with people who sin and refuse to repent? The passage, in Matthew I believe, where Christ says that the man should be addressed individually, then with a group, and finally with a church leader. If the guy refuses to acknowledge the sin, he is to be cast out.

It’s funny how all the tolerant folks omit those passages.
I should also point out that dining with these proudly unrepentant sinners leads to 3 outcomes for all of us mere mortals:

  1. They see your modeling and begin to change for the better.
  2. There is no change.
  3. Your position softens or changes regarding the sinfulness and its role in society.

Evil does not sit idly by. It adeptly uses the language of intellect and compassion to justify its actions and persuade even the best of us. That is precisely why we now live in a country where gay sex/marriage is to be cherished/accepted and abortion is considered a matter of reproductive freedom against female oppression.

All those tolerant enablers dining with these folks resulted in outcome #3 on a national scale because neither the Church nor the laypeople were/are willing to make a judgment.

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#119

Jesus visited the homes of sinners frequently. He went to tax collectors, he spoke to prostitutes. He did all the things so-called Christians would tell us NOT to do.

We are not here for the saved, we are here for the lost... that is what Christ taught us.

Go and show them the love of Christ, but be careful to only speak Truth while you are amongst them. Prayer and the Holy Spirit will guide you so that you can plant the seeds you're meant to plant.

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#120

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[quote="yellowbird, post:115, topic:195136"]
Yes, I would eat with all of the people you mentioned. Sinners are sinners... :shrug: Because here's the kicker: I used to BE one of them. I did horrible things.. sins that would make your head spin.. and just like "today's sinners" that you mentioned, I would've rejected the notion that I was doing anything wrong, and would've defended my RIGHT to live however I wanted. I lived like that for years... until Christ got a hold of my heart.

Did Jesus knock on my door to set me straight? Of course not. No Bible came down from heaven landing in my lap and I most certainly didn't wake up one Sunday and decide to attend Church. That's not how God works. Instead, He put wonderful Christians in my life who LOVINGLY shared their faith with me. Mostly by example.. not by preaching that I was sinner bound for hell. They shared what God meant to them.... how much He loved them, and how much He loved me... sins and all. They didn't need to tell me that there was a better way.. I could SEE by their example they had "something" I didn't it. Was it joy? peace? I wasn't sure.. but I wanted it. And when I asked, they told me how to get it. THAT is how God works.

I would WELCOME the opportunity to dine with sinners & unbelievers. Bring it on! Let ME be Christ to them. This isn't some private club we belong to. People can't be expected to clean up their act and ask for forgiveness BEFORE we will initiate contact. How ridiculous is that? If the Christians in my past had done that where would I be today???

[/quote]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::clapping::clapping:

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