Dear Muslims, you think is the bible corrupted?

if you think so , then i invite you to respond to the following questions with logical and consistent answers:

Were the torah (Jewish sacred scriptures) and the gospel (Christian sacred scriptures) ever considered as being from the one true God by muhhamad/quoran/islam?

Yes, and the Koran says so, though I do not remember the exact verses in the Koran.

Did God promise to keep His scriptures intact, corruption-free?

Yes, and this is again clearly written in the Koran.

Then, if the muslims claim that the bible and torah are corrupted, then allah/god must be a very weak being, as he somehow could not keep his very own scriptures free from errors and corruption !!

I’d love to hear the comments from muslims here !!

On the other hand, if muslims say that when allah/god promised to keep his scriptures free from error/corruption he was making reference to the Koran , and the Koran only, then this raises more difficult theological questions that the muslims have to clearly answer:

What kind of god is this one who deceives men by allowing them to corrupt his scriptures?

What kind of god would intentionally allow men to corrupt his own scriptures so a large part of his creation is totally mislead?

Finally, if god/allah has allowed his very own scriptures to be corrupted by men, then on what basis can anyone be assured that this god/allah did/will not allow the Koran to be corrupted by men???

This show put to rest the nonsensical arguments that the muslims everywhere are putting against the one true word of God, which is of course the Christian bible.

Anderson as Muslims we believe that the Injeel and Torah were revelations from God. They were not meant to be preserved. God sent them to a certain people for a certain time, therefore there really is no point in preserving them. All previous prophets were also sent to just a certain tribe or people and for a certain time. The last Prophet Mohammad peace be upon him was sent to all people for all time. Therefore Gods final revelation has to be protected. If not He would then have to send another messenger after Muhammad peace be upon him.

[quote=Emad]Anderson as Muslims we believe that the Injeel and Torah were revelations from God. They were not meant to be preserved. God sent them to a certain people for a certain time, therefore there really is no point in preserving them. All previous prophets were also sent to just a certain tribe or people and for a certain time. The last Prophet Mohammad peace be upon him was sent to all people for all time. Therefore Gods final revelation has to be protected. If not He would then have to send another messenger after Muhammad peace be upon him.
[/quote]

Emad

If Jesus was not successful, my belief is that JESUS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED BACK INTO HEAVEN. THAT"S WHY THE DEVIL TEMPTED HIM 3 TIMES

[quote=The Eurasian]+ + + + + + + + + + +

Emad

If Jesus was not successful, my belief is that JESUS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED BACK INTO HEAVEN. THAT"S WHY THE DEVIL TEMPTED HIM 3 TIMES
[/quote]

I never claimed Jesus peace and blessings be upon him was not successful. I said in Islam we believe that he and other prophets like him were sent to a specific tribe or town for a specific period of time.

[quote=Anderson33]This show put to rest the nonsensical arguments that the muslims everywhere are putting against the one true word of God, which is of course the Christian bible.
[/quote]

this show? perhaps you mean “this should”. :ehh: nonsensical, indeed… :rolleyes:

just like i said in the other thread where you posted this same post, your whole argument is based upon mistakes and false premises. thus, it lacks any real foundation. weak and illogical? yes, if we’re talking about what you’ve challenged us with here. :rolleyes:

btw, nice editing job you did on that first mistake i caught from you. :wink:

Emad

Just before Jesus’ FIRST PUBLIC MIRACLE at Cana where because of the intercession of the Virgin Mary, Jesus turned several jars of water into wine during a wedding, JESUS AND HIS APOSTLES WERE IN A SAMARITAN (ANCIENT PALESTINIAN) VILLAGE WHERE JESUS, THE SAMARITAN VILLAGERS, AND THE APOSTLES HAD LONG WONDERFUL,PLEASANT CONVERSATIONS WHERE JESUS AND THE SAMARITANS TALKED ABOUT THE GOD OF ABRAHAM BECAUSE THE SAMARITANS ARE ANCIENT PALESTINIANS AND DECENDANTS OF ABRAHAM, HAGAR, ISHMAEL. IN THE HOT SUN, SITTING AT JACOB’S WELL, JESUS ASKED THE SAMARITAN WOMAN FOR A DRINK OF WATER, She said to him something like this, "YOU, A JEW, ARE TALKING TO ME??? AND YOU ARE ASKING ME FOR A DRINK OF WATER??? At that time, Jews whould never go into Samaritan land… They would make a long detour just to avoid the Samaritans. And as you know in the past, in ancient times, WOMEN WERE 2nd CLASS CITIZENS. But here was Jesus, a RABII, A JEW, AND HE HAD A LONG CHAT WITH A SAMARITAN WOMAN. AND HE ASKED HER FOR A DRINK. AND HE DRANK. AND HE HAD A VERY LONG CONVERSATION WITH HER. HE, A STRANGER TOLD HER SECRETS ABOUT HER LIFE!!! FROM THAT, SHE KNEW HE WAS A PROPHET!!! AND SHE TOLD THE VILLAGERS THAT HE WAS A PROPHET WHO TOLD HER EVERYTHING ABOUT HER LIFE!!! AND THE VILLAGER ALL WENT TO SEE HIM!!! THEM WANTED TO MEET HIM!!! AND THEY DID!!! AND HE STAYED AND CONVERSED WITH THEM, I THINK 2 DAYS!!!

I believe, AND AS POPE JOHN PAUL II said when he visited Bethlehem, THE POPE SAID: THOSE SHEPHERDS PRESENT IN THE FIRST CHRISTMAS, WHO WERE THEY??? THEY WERE ANCIENT PALESTINIANS!!! LOOK HERE IN BETHLEHEM TODAY, HE SAID. WHO DO YOU SEE IF NOT PALESTINIANS!!! THOSE WERE YOUR ANCESTORS!!! ANCIENT PALESTINIANS!!!

You think JESUS, THE VIRGIN MARY, ST JOSEPH DO NOT REMEMBER, DO NOT LOVE THE PALESTINIANS WHO HELPED THEM, VISITED THEM, WHEN THE JEWS IN THE INN HAD NO PLACE FOR THEM DURING THAT FIRST CHRISTMAS??? WHY DID JESUS VISIT THAT ANCIENT SAMARITAN VILLAGE IF NOT TO SAVE THE DECENDANTS OF HAGAR, ISHMAEL?

JESUS AND HIS APOSTLES WERE IN A SAMARITAN (ANCIENT PALESTINIAN)

Off topic, but I wanted to point out that the Samaritans are not the predecessors of modern Palestinians. In fact, the Samaritans still exist as a seperate population. The modern Palestinians are by and large the descendants of the Jews of the region who did not leave after the destruction of the Temple, and who later converted to Christianity and Islam. This has been demonstrated genetically.

On topic, the belief that Jesus came for a specific tribe is contradicted by the writings about Jesus. From Matthew 28:19

19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

An obvious discrepency between Muslim accounts and the actual records of the words and deeds of Jesus and the Apostles.

Ghosty, thanks for the correction. So in ancient times, Palestinians were Jews. So Palestinians are decendants of Sarai, Israel??? VERY INTERESTING!!!

Yes, Palestinian is a label of diverse people who live in Palestine, but the “native” Palestinians (as opposed to the Armenian immigrants, migrant Bedouins, ect) are descended from the same genetic population as modern Jews of all stripes (Ethiopian, Ashkenazi, Sephardi, ect). When the genetic study was done a few years ago to determine if the Ethiopian Jews were “true” Jews (turned out they are), it also turned out that most native Palestinians had the same “Jewish” genetic markers.

Sorry, way off topic :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote=Emad]Anderson as Muslims we believe that the Injeel and Torah were revelations from God. They were not meant to be preserved. God sent them to a certain people for a certain time, therefore there really is no point in preserving them. All previous prophets were also sent to just a certain tribe or people and for a certain time. The last Prophet Mohammad peace be upon him was sent to all people for all time. Therefore Gods final revelation has to be protected. If not He would then have to send another messenger after Muhammad peace be upon him.
[/quote]

Emad;

why weren’t the gospel and the torah meant to be preserved?

the argument that it was so because they were only temporary is useless … you are saying that they are corrupted …

for the sake of argument, let us suppose that the torah and gospel were only temporary … still, that is not enough reason for god to allow them to be altered by men … after all, just like we Catholics believe, the different scriptures and messages of god were revealed step by step, but they all are part of a one, consistent message, that God has preserved intact through all ages and situations …

again, i am asking you why should i believe in a god that could/did not want to keep all his scriptures free from corruption?

is that logical? of course not !!!

as i wrote to gonzales, the Christian argument that god is fair and consistent in all his messages, revelations and scriptures is more logical that the muslim argument and idea of a god that could/did not keep his scriptures free from corruption …

would you care to explain to me why you believe in this type of god?

and please, do not bother responding with something like “it is so, because it is written in the koran” …

[quote=r.gonzales]this show? perhaps you mean “this should”. :ehh: nonsensical, indeed… :rolleyes:

just like i said in the other thread where you posted this same post, your whole argument is based upon mistakes and false premises. thus, it lacks any real foundation. weak and illogical? yes, if we’re talking about what you’ve challenged us with here. :rolleyes:

btw, nice editing job you did on that first mistake i caught from you. :wink:

[/quote]

well well mr. Grammar, your remark about my typo just shows your level of reasoning and debate !!! …

foolish people like you exactly come up with red-herrings just to avoid answering the fair questions that are asked to you !!!

do you find consolation in attacking your opponents’ grammatical mistakes??? do you think that will get your “religion” off the hook???

allow me to laugh at your level of intelligence mr gonzales !!!

:smiley: :smiley:

by the way, I am pasting the same words I wrote to you in the other thread so expose once again the fallacy of your words:

**Expected answer from you gonzales …… of course, you can not refute anything because your sense of logical argumentation is nonexistent …… it is so much fun to see that you believe in a god that somehow was so weak and/or evil that he could not keep his first revelations/scriptures free from corruption, but only his alleged “last” revelation !!! …… even funnier is the fact that you muslims believe that this allah will now make good on his promise to keep his last “revelation” free from corruption, when according to your “reasoning” he could/did not keep his earlier revelations free from errors !!!

I really laugh at the concept of god that you have muslims !!!

false premises? as Homer Simpson would say DUH !!!

I am basing my whole argument on the premise that god is consistent and fair … in other words, I do not believe in a god that twists and fails to protect any of his scriptures !!! … moreover, as I have already pointed out, I laugh at your attempt to convince us Christians to believe in a god that fails to keep his earlier revelations free from corruption, but promises to keep his alleged “last revelation” free from corruption !!!

funny the way your “logic” works Gonzales !!

what is illogical and false in my idea of god Gonzales?

why shouldn’t I believe in a god that has kept his scriptures and promises free from corruption? what is so illogical about my reasoning???

of course, the answer that you will come up with will read more or less like this:

“it is illogical because the Koran says so” … **

So Mr. Grammar, could you please answer the questions I am posing to you with logic an reason? Or are you going to make more remarks about my typos???

Are you going to confirm my suspicions that you are the master of red-herrings and nonsense?

Allow me to laugh again at your level of “intelligence”

:smiley:

BTW Mr Grammar, am i making progress with my written English?? i am anxious to get your approval !!!

this is really getting amusing.

let’s see mr. anderson… where is your proof to back up the following claim:

[quote=Anderson33]Did God promise to keep His scriptures intact, corruption-free?

Yes, and this is again clearly written in the Koran.
[/quote]

let’s see the verses. after you answer this, we can continue.

btw, your grammar still sucks :wink: . haha.

God never promised the scriptures would stay intact the way they were written.

He commanded us to keep them in tact and the way they were written.

[quote=r.gonzales]this is really getting amusing.

let’s see mr. anderson… where is your proof to back up the following claim:
let’s see the verses. after you answer this, we can continue.

btw, your grammar still sucks :wink: . haha.

[/quote]

sorry Mr. Grammar, but i am going off line … you are the “expert” in the koran, so it should be very easy for you to find that verse in which your “allah” made this promise …

BTW, my grammar may or may not suck, English is my second language … still, my “imperfect” English was enough to get me a masters and a PhD from one of the top 5 British universities … my “imperfect” English also is enough to write scientific papers in conferences, journals, presentations, etc, etc, etc … and I’ll be going for my second PhD very soon Mr. Grammar !!!

not too bad Mr. Grammar, right???

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

[quote=Anderson33]sorry Mr. Grammar, but i am going off line … you are the “expert” in the koran, so it should be very easy for you to find that verse in which your “allah” made this promise …

BTW, my grammar may or may not suck, English is my second language … still, my “imperfect” English was enough to get me a masters and a PhD from one of the top 5 British universities … my “imperfect” English also is enough to write scientific papers in conferences, journals, presentations, etc, etc, etc … and I’ll be going for my second PhD very soon Mr. Grammar !!!

not too bad Mr. Grammar, right???

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
[/quote]

well, dr. anderson… that’s good that you’ve got all those credentials :thumbsup: . however, it’s quite a shame a doctor like you, who received his phd from “one of the top 5 british universities”, doesn’t have simple enough logic to understand the errors he’s made.

grammar mistakes aside, you claim that our arguments are illogical and weak, basing this claim upon false premises due to your misconceptions of what is mentioned in the Quran. the burden of proof is upon the claimant, kind doctor, and you claimed that Allah has promised to preserve all of His scriptures and that this promise is cleary mentioned in the Quran.

i can find the verses that you think support your claim quite easily. the question is, can you???

[quote=Emad]Anderson as Muslims we believe that the Injeel and Torah were revelations from God. They were not meant to be preserved. God sent them to a certain people for a certain time, therefore there really is no point in preserving them. All previous prophets were also sent to just a certain tribe or people and for a certain time.
[/quote]

That is phoney baloney! Jesus told his apostles: “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, make disciples of ALL THE NATIONS. Baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. And teach them to observe all the commands I gave you. He who believes and is baptized will be saved. He who does not believe will be condemned. And know that I am with you always, yes, to the end of time”.Matt. 28:18-20. That means he was sent to the whole world.

The last Prophet Mohammad peace be upon him was sent to all people for all time. Therefore Gods final revelation has to be protected. If not He would then have to send another messenger after Muhammad peace be upon him.

More Muslim fiction!:smiley:

Bible is not corrupted.
These are the references.
Isaiah 34:16; Psalms 119:96, 128, 160; 138:2; Matthew 5:18; Luke 16:17; John 10:35; 1 Peter 1:23-25
Psalms 119:89; Isaiah 30:8; 40:8; Jeremiah 36:22-23, 27-28, 32; Matthew 5:17-18; 24:35; Luke 21:33.
In Christ,
selvaraj

[quote=Emad]Anderson as Muslims we believe that the Injeel and Torah were revelations from God. They were not meant to be preserved. God sent them to a certain people for a certain time, therefore there really is no point in preserving them. All previous prophets were also sent to just a certain tribe or people and for a certain time. The last Prophet Mohammad peace be upon him was sent to all people for all time. Therefore Gods final revelation has to be protected. If not He would then have to send another messenger after Muhammad peace be upon him.
[/quote]

Nice idea, can you show any proof of this claim?

[quote=ByzCath]Nice idea, can you show any proof of this claim?
[/quote]

So the Quran is eternal?

AL-MASADD

Can someone please explain the eternal wisdom of this?

[quote=Booklover]That is phoney baloney! Jesus told his apostles: “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, make disciples of ALL THE NATIONS. Baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. And teach them to observe all the commands I gave you. He who believes and is baptized will be saved. He who does not believe will be condemned. And know that I am with you always, yes, to the end of time”.Matt. 28:18-20. That means he was sent to the whole world.

More Muslim fiction!:smiley:
[/quote]

I am speaking from the Islamic perspective. Please don’t call my faith phoney baloney. I am sure Jesus peace be upon him wouldn’t do that. Since you claim to be his follower and love him, please try to act like him. Anderson is trying to prove that the Quran says that the previous scriptures were meant to be preserved, when it doesn’t. This has nothing to do with what Catholics believe, the thread asked if we believe the Bible was corrupted and I simply answered him.

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