Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship

More than 10 people have been killed after Israeli commandos stormed a convoy of ships carrying aid to the Gaza Strip, the Israeli army says.

Armed forces boarded the largest vessel overnight, clashing with some of the 500 people on board.

It happened about 40 miles (64 km) out to sea, in international waters.

Israel says its soldiers were shot at and attacked with weapons; the activists say Israeli troops came on board shooting.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm

Well, this isn't good for anyone, except maybe Hamas. :(

Blockade running is inherently confrontational, so the risk of violence is inevitable. Previous convoys have accused Israeli ships of ramming them.

I'm not sure if Israel has ever used commandos before. But they can only be effective if they threaten the use of violence. Did they shoot first? I guess we will find out, but for now I believe the Israelis when they say the commandos were first attacked with a number of weapons, including two guns. Yes, the flotilla was supposed to be peaceful, but its hard to control the actions of 500 people when emotions are so high. And if some of the people felt justified in defending their ships.... well, even non violent protests can spiral out of control.

Israel sent gunboats, armed helicopters, and dropped armed commandos with the intent to hijack a civilian humanitarian vessel in international waters and murdered 19 people in the process. Whats more, they have the gall to call the victims criminals and terrorists for defending themselves! It's also clear now that the only guns onboard the vessel were taken during the scuffle from the Israeli commandos who boarded the ship. Sanctions should be imposed at the very least for this outrageous event! :mad:

Mate,

If the activists were truly peaceful, none of this would have happened. Everytime we have hippie (liberal/tree hugger) protest, it always results in property or bodily damages. The left can't control themselves. They love anarchy.

[quote="EmperorNapoleon, post:2, topic:200173"]
Israel sent gunboats, armed helicopters, and dropped armed commandos with the intent to hijack a civilian humanitarian vessel in international waters and murdered 19 people in the process. Whats more, they have the gall to call the victims criminals and terrorists for defending themselves! It's also clear now that the only guns onboard the vessel were taken during the scuffle from the Israeli commandos who boarded the ship. Sanctions should be imposed at the very least for this outrageous event! :mad:

[/quote]

[quote="MugenOne, post:3, topic:200173"]
Mate,

If the activists were truly peaceful, none of this would have happened..

[/quote]

The "activists" weren't the ones hijacking a humanitarian vessel in international waters or murdering 19 people. They were on a peaceful mission to deliver food and humanitarian supplies to Gaza and they had the right to defend themselves from this act of piracy.

[quote="EmperorNapoleon, post:2, topic:200173"]
Israel sent gunboats, armed helicopters, and dropped armed commandos with the intent to hijack a civilian humanitarian vessel in international waters and murdered 19 people in the process. Whats more, they have the gall to call the victims criminals and terrorists for defending themselves! It's also clear now that the only guns onboard the vessel were taken during the scuffle from the Israeli commandos who boarded the ship. Sanctions should be imposed at the very least for this outrageous event! :mad:

[/quote]

So that's what we get for our 3 billion in extorted funds. A nuclear program that doesn't exist, an apatheid that is veering toward genocide, and more bulldozers and more barbed wire on demand. Way to go Israel, keep teaching the world about hypocrisy.

Boarding a peaceful ship in international waters and seizing control by of it by force is nothing short of piracy - I see no distinction between the actions of Israelie forces here and the actions Somalian Pirates.

Murdering innocent civilians in international waters is a heinous and unjust act; it is inconsequential that the civilians may or may not be armed - the boat was not within their Juristiction.... We don't have British Police arresting US people in Florida for possessing a firearm, it is patently absurd and unjustifiable.

Ernest Bevin was correct when he said "The majority proposal (on Israel) is so manifestly unjust to the Arabs that it is difficult to see how we could reconcile it with our conscience".

Describing any aid group as an * "armada of hate"* is horrific; whilst their (the aid workers) actions may be a contensious issue - bringing people aid should never be described as "hate."

:(

This doesn't surprise me at all, seeing the history that Israel has had in ignoring international law. There are barely that many people that even know of the Israeli attack on the American naval ship the USS Liberty en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident where 34 people were killed.

Anyone that gives aid to the Palestinians is an automatic anti-semite or is accused of being in support of terrorists. This horrific tragedy will not get anything but empty condemnations from the world-wide community.

God bless

First of all, if I board a ship and people immediately stab me and my men with knives and throw some of us off board, an escalation of force might be in order. Just saying.

These great humanitarians did what they did in order to illicit the knee-jerk response that the above posts exemplify. Mission accomplished.

Finally, to heck with international law. Israel is the one getting hammered by rockets and suicide bombs, not you or me. They have a right to defend themselves, and 'humanitarians' smuggle in war supplies regularly. Israel is being prudent by wanting to search them.

Before accusing Israel of hypocrisy, you might want to consider how you would behave if Mexico and Canada were both bigger than us in terms of population and were hell-bent on wanting to slaughter each and every one of us down to the last man, woman, and child.

[LIST]
*]Israel withdraws Gaza settlements and gives Gaza greater autonomy.
*]People of Gaza elect Hamas
*]Hamas, having been given power effectively by Israel's good will, launch rockets at Irsraeli kindergartens
*]Israel in response create blockade of Gaza like ANY other country would in such a situation.
*]'Peace activists' carrying concealed weapons provoke IDF and fire upon them first.
*]IDF retaliate.
[/LIST]

It's quite simple folks. Despite all NIs troubles, our charities didn't carry concealed weapons. Aid workers don't knife and shoot soldiers.

NotCrazyDan and grampben,

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:

[quote="NotCrazyDan, post:8, topic:200173"]
First of all, if I board a ship and people immediately stab me and my men with knives and throw some of us off board, an escalation of force might be in order. Just saying..

[/quote]

I'd say that the people on that ship have the right to defend themselves from your act of piracy.

[quote="NotCrazyDan, post:8, topic:200173"]
Finally, to heck with international law. Israel is the one getting hammered by rockets and suicide bombs, not you or me..

[/quote]

.

Israel is the one commiting crimes against humanity in Gaza. The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves and their territory.

[quote="NotCrazyDan, post:8, topic:200173"]
...and 'humanitarians' smuggle in war supplies regularly. Israel is being prudent by wanting to search them..

[/quote]

.

There's no reason to even assume that the flotilla was smuggling war supplies and Israel could have searched the cargo once the flotilla docked.

[quote="NotCrazyDan, post:8, topic:200173"]
Before accusing Israel of hypocrisy, you might want to consider how you would behave if Mexico and Canada were both bigger than us in terms of population and were hell-bent on wanting to slaughter each and every one of us down to the last man, woman, and child.

[/quote]

Since you seem to be a fan of role reversal; imagine a scenario in which the United Nations decided to carve up the United States and give the land, including all of the most fertile areas, every body of fresh water in the country, the vast majority of the coastline, etc, to another people. Now imagine that these people have powerful allies who arm them to the teeth. They still aren't satisfied and decide they want more so they forcibly remove you from your home and give it to one of their own. I doubt you'd sit idly by while everything you have is taken from you.

It's Israel that wants to slaughter every last man, woman, and child in Gaza. If not by way of weapons; through starving the population.

Without getting into whether the blockade is moral or not, the aid ship was trying to break through the Israeli's. They can't play innocent in that they didn't know that Israel was going to stop them. Even though the incident took place in international waters, their intent was to deliver aid to the area that Israel is blockading.

I wonder how much weaponry was included with all that “aid”?

[quote="pete_29, post:13, topic:200173"]
I wonder how much weaponry was included with all that "aid"?

[/quote]

People from the US cannot criticize another country for the arms trade - especially too legitimate countries trying to defend their land. Not only is the defence of their land permissable in international law, but also in Just War Theory.

Furthermore, the US provided weapons to the allies (China, Britain, USSR) in WWII whilst remaining "neutral" with regards to Germany until late 1941; so if one is going to say that providing "arms" to countries so they can defend themselves is bad - one nessecarily holds that the US's intervention in WWII was bad :shrug:

Not that I condone violence of any kind - I think it is atrocious and abominable that this situation was allowed to occur in the first Place, and the UN should look back at the errors it made in "General Assembly Resolution 181", and get involved to try and repair the atrocious damage caused.

:(

Oh hey guys, let's just sail right on through the blockade. I'm sure nothing bad will happen. Oh Israeli troops boarding our vessel to enforce the blockade? We can take'em- let's start shooting and stabbing!

[quote="JohnDamian, post:14, topic:200173"]
People from the US cannot criticize another country for the arms trade - especially too legitimate countries trying to defend their land. Not only is the defence of their land permissable in international law, but also in Just War Theory.

[/quote]

You don't defend your land by firing rockets across the boarder at civilian targets.

[quote="tjm190, post:16, topic:200173"]
You don't defend your land by firing rockets across the boarder at civilian targets.

[/quote]

If I remember my history right it worked on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.... It seems to me like the pot calling the kettle black. The UN should get involved and undo or ammend "General Assembly Resolution 181".

War is a terrible thing, and the poor choice of land, and lack of compensation for the Palistinian people was well known at the time as atrocious and "unfair". It was a recipe for disaster from the beginning, and sitting idly by without any efforts to ammend the terrible damage caused is not an excuse.

Both sides have harmed Civilians, and it is absolutely unnacceptable; the sheer fact itself that an aid ship would be called a "armada of hate" testifies to how out of control it has become - either the Palistinians should be compensated for the land that was stolen, or the Israleis should give it back.

[quote="JohnDamian, post:17, topic:200173"]
If I remember my history right it worked on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.... It seems to me like the pot calling the kettle black. The UN should get involved and undo or ammend "General Assembly Resolution 181".

[/quote]

If we follow that logic, then Israel and Palestine are at war, and Israel is certainly in the right to maintain its blockade.

War is a terrible thing, and the poor choice of land, and lack of compensation for the Palistinian people was well known at the time as atrocious and "unfair". It was a recipe for disaster from the beginning, and sitting idly by without any efforts to ammend the terrible damage caused is not an excuse.

Both sides have harmed Civilians, and it is absolutely unnacceptable; the sheer fact itself that an aid ship would be called a "armada of hate" testifies to how out of control it has become - either the Palistinians should be compensated for the land that was stolen, or the Israleis should give it back.

Intentionally sailing through a blockade and then fighting against those trying to enforce it is beyond stupid- the only motive I could conceive of would be to make Israel look belligerent. I have less then no sympathy for the people on those ships.

And quite frankly- we know Israel had that land 'stolen' from it multiple times thousands of years ago- the Palestinians just inherited it when the most recent 'thief' (Rome) collapsed.

[quote="JohnDamian, post:14, topic:200173"]
People from the US cannot criticize another country for the arms trade - especially too legitimate countries trying to defend their land. Not only is the defence of their land permissable in international law, but also in Just War Theory.

Furthermore, the US provided weapons to the allies (China, Britain, USSR) in WWII whilst remaining "neutral" with regards to Germany until late 1941; so if one is going to say that providing "arms" to countries so they can defend themselves is bad - one nessecarily holds that the US's intervention in WWII was bad :shrug:

Not that I condone violence of any kind - I think it is atrocious and abominable that this situation was allowed to occur in the first Place, and the UN should look back at the errors it made in "General Assembly Resolution 181", and get involved to try and repair the atrocious damage caused.

:(

[/quote]

WOW!!! Where did that come from? The Israelis are the ones that are surrounded and under attack. Surely they should be allowed to defend themselves or should the Palestinians be allowed to rain rockets down upon them at will and without consequence?

[quote="JohnDamian, post:17, topic:200173"]
If I remember my history right it worked on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.... It seems to me like the pot calling the kettle black. The UN should get involved and undo or ammend "General Assembly Resolution 181".

War is a terrible thing, and the poor choice of land, and lack of compensation for the Palistinian people was well known at the time as atrocious and "unfair". It was a recipe for disaster from the beginning, and sitting idly by without any efforts to ammend the terrible damage caused is not an excuse.

Both sides have harmed Civilians, and it is absolutely unnacceptable; the sheer fact itself that an aid ship would be called a "armada of hate" testifies to how out of control it has become - either the Palistinians should be compensated for the land that was stolen, or the Israleis should give it back.

[/quote]

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military targets.

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