Debate with Protestant about salvation

Im debating a protestant who says that he knows Catholics are not going to heaven because of 2 Corinthians 5:8. "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and be present with the Lord,

He claims that he is a born again believer and this verse is why he will be going to heaven and us Catholics will not. He goes on to say that we (protestants) are called Protestants because we protest willful ifnorance concerning Biblical Traditions Doctrines and teachings.

He also mentions 2 Timothy 3:16-17 English Standard Version.

He’s forgetting Philippians 2:12. If he wants to debate based on scripture (of which he seems to be claiming superior knowledge) then has has to take into account all scripture. Not just cherry picked verses.

I’m also unsure why that verse he quoted holds any sway on the salvation of Catholics.

1 Like

Ask him why he is taking one line out of context, and then how does that partial scentence convey “Catholics are not going to heaven?”

So we are always courageous, although we know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight.

Yet we are courageous, and we would rather leave the body and go home to the Lord.

Therefore, we aspire to please him, whether we are at home or away.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil.

Interested to see how this says Catholics will not go to heaven.

The 2 letter to Timothy:
All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that one who belongs to God may be competent, equipped for every good work

As the Church gave the world the Bible, he is a bit confused.

1 Like

He keeps going around in circles…

Yet one more inconsistency in protestantism that cannot be corrected within protestantism.

Peace!!!

Anyone here on a Facebook group called Five Solas vs Catholic Church- Debate group? That is where this debate is occurring. If anyone is there some feedback would be helpful

Here is the link to that thread…

This sort of group is not edifying.

2 Likes

Yes, Catholics go to heaven… I am an evangelical Christian. When I hear the word Protestantism it is always in a negative context. Google "Pew research Center sometime. Something like 74% of Catholics do not believe in the body and blood of Jesus present in the Eucharest!
I cant take communion because I was not Baptised. But I study often and it’s real! It is pretty hard for an older non catholic to enter the Catholic church. Takes up to a year.

How could a Christian believe that one could be “absent from the body” and still be saved? That is preposterous by any Christian ideation of salvation.

All of existence is Trinitarian. And the Trinity is a community of persons. Before God made people, eternal beatitude had “a body”, or a community.
Silly.

I think you have to keep in mind that not every wild-hair assertion deserves a response.

As an adult convert, I will say, conversion is a process not a one time event. For the first half of my life, conversion meant walking down an aisle and shaking a preacher’s hand, so, I understand how “instruction” can seem odd.

1 Like

Concerning 2 Cor 5:8, Who would NOT rather be absent from the body and home with the Lord? That said, that passage does NOT say one who is absent from the body is automatically home with the Lord. THAT is reading into the passage something that is NOT even close to being there. But that is the error typically brought about by the ignorant and unstable who privately twist scripture as we see, that they have no business interpreting privately, as we see, to their own destruction…

As for THAT selection

“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

Q’s for him

Who told him 2 Tim was scripture?

Why is he defying Jesus prayer when Jesus established His Church on Peter (Rock) and gave Peter the keys to the kingdom, and He wants perfect union with Peter by everyone, just as Jesus prayed, HERE

what branch of the Protestant heresy does he belong to?

He says he is a “believer”

believer? That’s it? Which heresy?

1 Like

In my experience, Protestants use that verse to contradict the Teaching of Purgatory. The way I address this is sort of detailed. Let me see if I can do a shorthand version.

First, I establish that Scripture says that our God is a consuming fire.

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Then, I establish that Scripture says that in Purgatory, we are saved by fire:

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Therefore, we believe that when we are absent from the body, we are in the presence of God, the Consuming Fire and He purifies us and perfects us and brings us into heaven. Because nothing impure can enter there.

I hope that makes sense.

He claims that he is a born again believer and this verse is why he will be going to heaven and us Catholics will not.

Well, that verse doesn’t mention Protestant or Catholic. But this verse says that all men, Protestant or Catholic, will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and be judged for what they have done in the body.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

He goes on to say that we (protestants) are called Protestants because we protest willful ifnorance concerning Biblical Traditions Doctrines and teachings.

It sounds as though he’s getting a bit rude. I would avoid any conversation with him. But if you wish to continue, tell him that Protestants are the ones’ ignorant of Scripture. In fact, the lowliest devout Catholic sitting in the pews knows the Word of God better than their high and mightiest pastors because Catholics are instructed in the truth, whereas, they are very capable at passing on errors and heresies.

And remind him, Jesus Christ did not write Scripture. He established a Church and commanded that Church to Teach what He commanded:

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

cont’d

He also mentions 2 Timothy 3:16-17 English Standard Version.

Let’s break it down for him. I’m using the KJV, but it shouldn’t be a problem.

First, St. Paul exhorts St. Timothy to give oral testimony

Chapter 1:8Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

Then, St. Paul commands Timothy to teach others to teach.
2 Tim 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

Let’s skip over chapter 3 for now:

Another exhortation to preach.
Chapter 4: 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

The whole book is about preaching and teaching!

What is the immediate context of the 2 Tim 3:16? Let’s look at some of the verses leading up to it.

2 Tim 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

I have taught you and you have learned.

Skip to verse 14
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

So practice what you have learned considering from whom you have learned them.

verse 15

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Now, think about this carefully. Does a child have to know how to read in order to know the Scriptures? In my house, my children and I meditated on the Scriptures since before they knew how to read. So I know that the answer is, “No.”

Now, let’s break down the verse itself

Chapter 3 verse 16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God,

Is that true? Yes. Remember what St. Peter said:

2 Pet 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

So, all Scripture is inspired. But that doesn’t say that Scripture alone is inspired. It says that men were inspired to PREACH. Yes, to PREACH. These men then turned around and wrote down the Scripture.

and is profitable for doctrine,

Profitable for doctrine. But profitable does not mean necessary.

for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Is it fair to ask who is doing all this reproving, correcting, and instructing in righteousness? Is it not a teacher? If so, does this verse not assume the existence of a Magisterium and thus support the Catholic Doctrine of handing down Tradition by an appointed Teacher, (Magisterium means Teacher).

Bottom line

The entire book of 2nd Timothy is about preaching, teaching and handing on Tradition.

1 Like

Satan also believes, and trembles.

1 Like

I find it interesting that the Timothy quote regarding scriptures is when there was no NT written yet. Scripture at that point in time was the OT.

2 Likes

My neighbor a woman, my neighbor and family friend invited me.

Because she wanted me to get baptized.

I chose an adoration group because I wanted to sense the real presence of Jesus there. I am a student of the Bible.

The leader pressured me to leave or go by myself sometime.

My neighbor was told she could not mentor a neighbor man.

It is hard, and my hurt prevents me from returning.

“Protestant” is too broad a term, need more details.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.