Decline and Fall of the American Woman


Decline and Fall of the American Woman
Rabbi Shmuley Boteach - Tuesday, 6 March, 2007

Male fantasy has finally become the female nightmare. For centuries it was men’s great wish that the day would come when women cast off all prudish restraints. Rather than dressing modestly, they would dress provocatively. Rather than protecting their virtue, they would jump into bed with the first guy that came along. And rather than carrying themselves with feminine dignity, they would behave with the same vulgarity as one of the boys.

No guy actually believed that any of this would ever happen. Rather, it was the stuff of male fantasy.

Then one day it happened. Women cast off any last vestige of restraint. Teen girls began wearing thongs to school and started sleeping around from age of 14. College girls started ripping off their shirts for Girls Gone Wild videos and proved to the guys that they too could live in an alcohol-induced fog for their four years on campus.



Teen girls began wearing thongs to school and started sleeping around from age of 14. …

And just who were they sleeping with?



With the boys, of course, or young adults, or maybe even older sometimes. There surely has been a change for the worse in men’s behaviour, but the Rabbi seems to be focusing on the fact that whatever men dreamt of has become reality and proven to be a course. And yes, I too was a young stupid kid dreaming of girls being easy, sure. These days, however, I’m the guy who wonders where all the single Catholics girls have gone, as well as true ladies. It’s a curse what’s going on. I’m seriously worried for the future generation of young Catholic guys finding a girl… now that’s going to be a pain. I don’t envy my son to be. Won’t be easy on the girls, sure, either.


The problem with the good Rabbi Shmuley is he always gets it half right. It’s kind of heartbreaking because I really want to like him!

I argued that the sexual exploitation of women in our culture has led to an epidemic of misogyny. To portray oneself, or to allow oneself to be portrayed, as the male sex slave is to invite male derision and contempt. Such debasement is the lowest form of self-abuse.

I agree with his assessment here. But he neglects to mention the enormous role that radical feminism has played in this whole situation. If it was not for the “burn your bra”, “abort your baby”, “take the pill” mentality of these women, I doubt things would have ever gone this far. This generation of girls is simply taking that whole ideology to it’s logical end.

Get women like Katie Couric, Condoleezza Rice and Norah Jones to speak out against those who use their sexuality to get ahead, saying it’s unfair to women who want to advance based on talent.

I don’t see why or how Katie Couric, Nora Jones, and Condoleezza Rice should be the role models for our girls. Why do we have to look to celebrities at all? Back in the old days, schools taught about heroines who had achieved great accomplishments in history. Parents taught their girls at home about modesty and self-respect. And in my youth, the nuns filled in the blanks (usually with their rulers across the knuckles!). Young girls should be encouraged to look elsewhere for examples of womanhood.


Well I’m one of the last (???) girls (I’m 35) who is remaining virtuous until my wedding night.

My problem will be in meeting my ‘counterpart’ in this day and age!!!



I see alot of men on these forums searching for virtuous Catholic women :wink:


You’re right about feminism. If I wanted to destroy women, feminism would have worked better than any other tactic i’ve seen!

Feminism has told women two main things: sex with one’s husband is slavery, and sex with any man who doesn’t care enough to commit is freedom. The great achievement of feminism is it has given male scoundrels access to easy sex without the price of marriage or a prostitute (and often not even dinner or respect!). It makes me wonder if feminists are secret agents of the dreaded patriarchy.

All this has greatly harmed women. And it is sad.

Katie, Condi, and Nora are simply well-known examples of women who have achieved success without sexually exploiting themselves. He could use a non-celebrity, but they wouldn’t be known to readers.

God bless.


I am full of stupid questions, here is another: If men are so disgusted with these kinds of hoochy mamas then why the heck do they seek them out? I have had several dates lately and it seems that this is truely what a man wants! Where am I going wrong here?:confused:

May I be so bold to say that MOST of my married male friends have had affairs with these kinds of women (hoochies) or have spent considerable time looking at pornography. If men do not like these loose women and morals, why do they partake in them?

This is very confusing for a single gal! Do you want a virtuous woman or a moraally loose one?:smiley: If you want a virtuous woman, then won’t the loose women take the hint and see that what they are doing is sinful? So Confusing!!:confused:


The wrong kind of man maybe? What’s the common trait of all the men you have dated recently? What attracted you to them? Was it always the same thing or related? Where did you meat them? How did they ask you out and how did they behave before? You don’t need to reply to me (though if you do, I will try to help you discover the pattern), but you should answer yourself. Of course, this isn’t to say it’s your fault, far from that.


I am from the UK but I feel that America and Uk are very similar.

I love going on this forum - I find it a breath of fresh air and a wealth of information, however I feel that sometimes the word ‘feminism’ is taken out of context. Yes feminism may be associated with abortion and casual sex but that is not what being a feminist is about - I consider myself to be a strong feminist, I have got a great grad career waiting for me as a civil servant in September, I will be earning far more money that my partner (pre-feminism this would not have been possible), through feminism the glass ceiling is falling I can now earn as much as a man in the same position, I do not need a chaperone to go out, I am free to date whom I choose, I can drive, choose not to cook or clean and not be expected to be a baby machine I am now able to work and live my own life I can be a mother and be a capable member of the work force - this is what feminism is.

It means that the way I dress is a personal choice I am not told by my father, boyfriend uncle or whatever what to wear and I have free choice.

Feminism works well with catholism if it is not twinned with a lack of morality the problem with the western world is not due to the rise of women but to the fall in morality amongst both the sexes - the fact that in the UK 5 year olds are given sex-ed, the fact that 5 year old smoke and that 8 year olds do cannabis that is the problem with society.

I will not be held responible as a woman for the fall in society but I will be held responsible for my own moral values, the way I choose to live my life. The problem is that too many people aren’t prepared to have morals - its too hard!

And just a quick note I will not as a woman be held responsible for any mans ‘sin’ he has a mind of his own and should he choose to look to the gutter merely because I wear a short skirt or a low cut top that is HIS sin and HIS problem. :eek:


Some of the places I meet men are work, common friends, church, volunteer activities. So whats the beef? That can not be a coincidence. Can you answer my questions? Do men want a virtuous woman? I know you do Chevalier, I have read your posts, but do the majority of men?


I suppose you do not need to worry about his problem, but perhaps if you are a friend or family member, you can chose to help and assist them overcome their problems. I assume you will not have to deal with a partner’s problems nor children’s problems. I suppose you don’t need help from other’s with your problems, I assume you do have sins and problems, or you’ve not orginal sin?

Why exactly do you want to wear a short skirt or a low cut top? Strictly for comfort?


I think from the orginal article, the answer assumes that question would be no. But the writer’s overall point, is becareful for what you wish for, you might just get it. I guess I haven’t read but the exert here, but I think it might end up a ditto for the females.


I cannot be held responsible for a man or womans thoughts I can only be held responsible and I wear short skirts on occasions when I go out because I happen to like fashion and I am a 20 year old woman I can wear what so ever I choose and I like to wear clothes which make me look pretty obviously I stick to the rule of vogue which is the rather crude (tts or are not both) (sorry for the language!) but I wear what I choose, I am an engaged woman and I am a student and no I will not be responsible for anyone elses thoughts. When/If I have children (I have gynae issues) I will ensure that they are brought up with good morals and that they are taught well but I cannot be held responsible for their thoughts - you don’t blame the parents or family of a person who kills you blame the person, you don;t blame the victim of rape you blame the attacker and similarly if a man chooses to have impure thoughts merely because I am showing skin that is HIS problem!

I am a practising catholic but I am a realist and I am not going to run around in a burka to save men from their own imperfections! I don’t have impure thoughts when I see a man in speedos! :wink:


I believe that one thing us women should remeber, our outside is a relflection of our insides. If we dress dignified, people will treat us with dignity, if we dress sleazy, they will treat us that way, if we dress professionally they will think we are proffessional, you get the picture.
I know most do not watch the Dave Chapelle (SP?) show, he is an African American comdian who can be raunchy sometimes, but other times he is funny as heck! This always sticks out in my mind when I think of him:
Dave said that he was out at a bar or clubbing and he hits on a girl who is dressed like a whore (I can say that, its in the bible right?), and he tries to bring her home. She says to him “what kind of girl do you think I am?” He said she is dressed like whore, she acts like a whore, she looks like a whore, but she is not a whore?
He continues: If a person with a police uniform walks in, we would assume he is a cop. No he is just a man wearing a police uniform and badge, he is just acting like one. Just like the lady who was just wearing the whores uniform, but was really a lady!

You get it! haha


Judge And You Shall Be Judged


I believe it says "Condemn, lest you be condemned"
I think that inferences are not the same as judgements. We make inferences all the time, If we see someone in a lab coat we assume they are a health care professional. IF we see someone walk into a building all wet holding an umbrella, we assume it is raining outside. These are inferences, not judgements on someone’s soul. We use this in all areas of our lives.

If you are an employer hiring employees, you have to make judgements based on someones appearance, resume, and what they told you, true or not. We can’t possible get to know everyone before we make any judegments, or inferences as I would call them.


He ain’t heavy, he’s my brother.


Sorry, that went right over my head, who is your brother?:confused:


With respect, I beg to differ. Everyone is responsible for his choices. This is not to say what’s too short or too low, but to say that everyone is responsible for temptations caused while trying to be sexy. Similarly, following the same logic, men could say, “It’s not my fault, she wore/did/said this or that.” It’s neither very fair nor very logical to expose something and expect men to look the other way. Apart from any potential sexuality-related consequences, it would simply be quite a large burden for a single person to impose on all with whom he or she interacts. Clothing is not a morally neutral matter per se, and we don’t have the authority to make it morally neutral for ourselves just because we decide so.

Yep, that is true. Moral judgement is one thing, but practical inferences are another. If I see someone dressed like a loose woman, I will not judge her, but at the same time I will not really approach and make friends with her or ask her to dance if it’s a party. If her outfit actually succeeded at turning my sight towards improper destinations, I would simply avoid contact. :wink: This is not passing judgement on the person. The way some women behave, it’s like if I put on a Roman collar and asked people why they thought I was a priest or why they asked me to bless them or some such.

Personally, I like to look at a pretty girl and I don’t think I sin by looking at a nice silhouette or a nice leg or nice hair or whatever. I’m not a fan of Catholic versions of the burkha and I think it’s overdone - but if that’s what makes someone feel safer or less at risk or cleaner or whatever, by all means go for it. I just always appreciate the lady who dresses with dignity. Not one who makes statements about being emancipated or makes a point of wearing something because she thinks she has the right to, whatever. This is not so much about the lengths or transparency of fabric used, as it is about sexual connotations. After all, a clingy latex suit will cover more than a summer halter dress, not? :wink:

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