Defense of the Catholic Church from a non Catholic

For a quite a while now, there has been a lot of defending the Catholic faith on my part, but honestly, not to the level of serious apologetics. Not my bailiwick.
I am not Catholic.
My defense has mostly been regarding facts, not that which is open to interpretation.
My points are made without evangelizing; it is not my wish to do so.

For example, yesterday a co-worker asked if I was a Christian because he wanted to recommend a book.
I pointed to my cross and he said, “well, not every cross wearer is a Christian.” :confused:

“This one is.” :thumbsup:

He went on to evangelize in a non denominational way “He died for ALL of us,” etc., until he mentioned Catholicism, in which he was raised. ( A red flag to me, explained later.*)

He then went on to subtly bash the faith, which bothered me; again, I defend, but not necessarily well.
It went something like this:

“I don’t need to pray to Mary, I pray to Jesus.”

“Catholics don’t need to pray to her, either; they want to. She’s the Mother of God, after all. For all Christians. Besides, they are not praying to her in the manner you may be implying.
She is not a substitute, she is not an either/or. Catholics pray to her as an intercessor to Our Father in His Son’s name, much like I would ask you to pray for me in His Name to get the job of my dreams. Catholics do not need to pray to Mary. They can pray directly to Jesus, too, because in the end, all prayers to Mary and the Saints, for that matter, go to Him. He is The One."

“Catholics get all up in arms with guilt if they don’t go to church.”

“Um. Why would one profess their faith and not go? Besides illness and the like, that is. It is okay to forgo Church if one is incoherent with a fever of 102. Seriously. The Church and Christ would understand many circumstances. In fact, it would be advised to stay home due to fever. Now, skipping off to the beach, that’s another matter. A serious one! By the way, you didn’t ask if I was Catholic! Remember also that there are zealots in every faith. EVERY faith. Remember that in EVERY faith, there are those who were poorly taught of their own faith. There are those who are 'cradle fill-in-the-faith believers; they follow what their parents do/did more out of obligation and fear than from understanding or learning their own faith. It is far more stunning to believe from faith and understanding than from just following the crowd. In my opinion, anyway.”

(* So I am guessing but not assuming that this co-worker was poorly catechized.)

“Catholics give more credence to the institutional Church than they do Scripture. I don’t need a church to read the Bible”

“Um, they do not give credence of one over the other. The Church is the facilitator of Sacred Tradition, which is the facilitator of Scripture, at least as I understand it. Christ is the message, The Church is the medium. Besides, isn’t it nice to follow and read the Bible in a community of your brethren? What a show of unity! Following the faith in many ways, including the sharing of the Bible amongst your sisters and brothers in Christ! On your own is certainly okay also. But did He not give us each for each other?”

“I don’t need a priest to confess my sins, be it weekly, monthly or whatever.”

(Sigh!)
“Neither do Catholics.Sorta. They can pray and apologize to Him any time they want. But, yes, they believe that the priest, as persona Christi Capitas, or, in the Person of Christ the Head, is the facilitator. Weekly isn’t required. Even monthly isn’t required but strongly suggested. So yes, the Catholic Church has the sacrament of confession, required at least once a year via a priest. But Catholics, indeed, all Christians can and should pray directly to God as well when we are sorry for our sins and to ask for His forgiveness. Besides, He is available to us 24/7. As is His want.”

One thing we agreed on is the disconcerting use of the phrase “Catholic or Christian” as a question.
Catholic Christian, Christian Catholic, Catholic, all good. But not “Catholic or Christian.”
Catholics ARE Christians. The first ones!! Well, I guess the Judeo-Christians were. And then they became Catholic. “Catholic” wasn’t a term used until the second century, right?

So!

My 1st question is…

How am I doing?
I am just persnickety about errors of such magnitude and am equally fascinated by those making them about their own faith. Mind you, I don’t expect any one at any time to know their faith with precision. It is a life long long journey. But I just had the feeling that this man was poorly catechized and perhaps had never even skimmed the CCC, much less read it.
~
God gave us an inquiring brain. I wonder why this man didn’t question why these issues seemed so wrong to him without wondering the basis. They were wrong to him and so he jumped ship. Unless a tsunami is about to overpower me, I’d first ask, “Why does my fill-in-the-faith(s) believe what they believe? I can’t say they are wrong until I understand its facts as well as their basis for what they believe as truth. My parents’ say so isn’t enough. Following the crowd isn’t enough. I should find the reason of my faith; for my faith."

2nd question…
Am I in the minority with the above thought?!

Thank you.
And I hope to have posted in the right forum.

Blessings with His Peace

Thank you, and I am impressed. I agree with your opinions at the bottom there, totally.

God bless!

Sounds great! Wish most Catholics could explain as well as that!

Also, Im dubious much of the time when someone says they used to be Catholic when they want to argue against the Church. I think some people use that statement to try to build some credibility about what they are saying about the Church. The fact is that when you listen to them for a while, you can get a pretty good idea whether they really even practiced the faith at all beyond their childhood. Sometimes its clear they were either not an adult Catholic or they are nearly mentally challenged because of the ridiculous things they say.

Again, great job!

On behalf of Catholics, Thank you! :thumbsup: Maybe …just maybe this fallen away Catholic will allow what you said to sink in a bit and with the help of the Holy Spirit have a conversion of heart. At the very least, may he take the time to understand the basis for the teaching of the Church as you mentioned.

Are you sure you’re not Catholic? At least at heart? :smiley:

God Bless!

:thankyou:

At heart, I am His.

Thank you, from this Catholic. May I ask what keeps you away from joining the Catholic church? I will pray for you and for your possible future conversion to Christ’s Church. :slight_smile:

Whether you “Dive right in and swim the Tiber” or remain in your Christian faith home is, I believe, where God intends you to be. As a convert though, The water is nice:D

God bless you for defending the truth;)

Careful! Defending Catholicism is the first step to conversion. :stuck_out_tongue:

A year before I converted I was where you are. I just got so frustrated with the misinformation and lies that are routinely passed off as ‘truth’ about the Catholic Church. Even though I disliked Catholicism and was very firmly anti-Christianity in general, I DEFENDED the Church whenever someone would make false claims about her.

And then, a year later, I came home.

Haha.

So you’re on a good road there brother. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

:thankyou:

But not likely. Very settled where He has me right now. Of course, He could change His mind. :wink:

sister

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long a story.
As mentioned above, He could change His mind, of which I cannot grasp . Yet I am very settled where He has me currently.
Thank you!

I was a Protestant who became a Catholic and the attitude of some Catholics who have left the Church has bothered me.

I loved the Protestant Church I grew up in. The people were kind, good and taught me to love Christ and to love the Bible. When I became a Catholic, I lost nothing and only gain so much more.

This has been the experience of other protestants I know who have become Catholics.

I don’t understand the trashing of the Catholic Church. I have never trashed any religion and I certainly won’t trash the church I grew up in.

First thank you so much for defending the faith.
Second, the quote above tells me a lot. As a former manager (and please tell me this person is not one), I can tell you if I caught a worker doing that on company time, they would reprimanded at the least.

=Deputy Seraph

“This one is.” :thumbsup:
“He died for ALL of us,” etc., until he mentioned Catholicism, in which he was raised. ( A red flag to me,)

He then went on to subtly bash the faith, which bothered me; again, I defend, b

“I don’t need to pray to Mary, I pray to Jesus.”

“Catholics don’t need to pray to her, either; they want to. She’s the Mother of God, after all. For all Christians. Besides, they are not praying to her in the manner you may be implying.
She is not a substitute, she is not an either/or. Catholics pray to her as an intercessor to Our Father in His Son’s name,COLOR]

THANK YOU FOR FOR EFFORTS ON GOD’S BEHALF!

Prayers to Mary are NOT mandated but very effective, and ALL prayer is aimed at God as the end object of our prayers,

[quote]“Catholics get all up in arms with guilt if they don’t go to church.”

“Um. Why would one profess their faith and not go? Besides illness and the like, that is.There are those who are 'cradle fill-in-the-faith believers; they follow what their parents do/did more out of obligation and fear than from understanding or learning their own faith.”

(* So I am guessing that this co-worker was poorly catechized.)

Hmm; isn’t the 3td COMMANDMENT; "KEEP HOLY The SABBTH DAY? Read Mt. 19:17

“Catholics give more credence to the institutional Church than they do Scripture. I don’t need a church to read the Bible”

“Um, they do not give credence of one over the other. The Church is the facilitator of Sacred Tradition, which is the facilitator of Scripture, at least as I understand it.

I “burn” a bit when I hear these blanket and unsupported charges. Not only is it untrue, it’s
not even defendable without specifics.

“I don’t need a priest to confess my sins, be it weekly, monthly or whatever.”

(Sigh!)
“Neither do Catholics.Sorta. They can pray and apologize to Him any time they want. But, yes, they believe that the priest, as persona Christi Capitas, or, in the Person of Christ the Head, is the facilitator. Weekly isn’t required. Even monthly isn’t required but strongly suggested. So yes, the Catholic Church has the sacrament of confession, required at least once a year via a priest. But Catholics, indeed, all Christians can and should pray directly to God as well when we are sorry for our sins and to ask for His forgiveness. ”

On this one MY FRIEND, you’re both wrong:

Mt. 7: 21"Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"

John 20:19-23
".Now when it was late that same day, the first of the week, and the doors were shut, where the disciples were gathered together, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them: Peace be to you. And when he had said this, he shewed them his hands and his side. The disciples therefore were glad, when they saw the Lord.

“He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. [FYI: THIS MEAS EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS: WITH GODS OWN POWERS AND AUTHORITY. READ MT. 10:1-8] ** When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost.** Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”

This was not a new invention. God used priest in the OT too:

Lev.5: 13 “Thus the priest shall make atonement for him for the sin which he has committed in any one of these things, and he shall be forgiven. And the remainder shall be for the priest, as in the cereal offering."

One thing we agreed on is the disconcerting use of the phrase “Catholic or Christian” as a question.

Catholic Christian, Christian Catholic, Catholic, all good. But not “Catholic or Christian.”
Catholics ARE Christians. The first ones!! Well, I guess the Judeo-Christians were. And then they became Catholic. “Catholic” wasn’t a term used until the second century, right?

ALL good; BUT NOT equal. WHY?

because fully suported by the both the bible and secular history

There is BUT One TRUE God [triune] Mt 28:16-20

One God can and does [logically and morally] ONLY one set of faith beliefs
Eph. 2:19-20; Jn. 10:16; Eph. 4: 1-7 & Mt. 16:15-19 [as a few exampls]

And just as Yahweh had ONLY “one chosen people” [The jews]; Christ followed His own tradition and choose to have just ONE Church. Todays CC. AS A FYI: For nearly 1,000 YEARS todays catholic Church was the ONLY Christian church anywg=here in the World. And it’s illogical to think that Christ would have waithed for Henry, Luther, Wycliffe, Calvin oe Jones; 1,500 years to introfuce his one set of true FAITH beliefs.:thumbsup:

So! My 1st question is…

How am I doing?

This man was one of MANY who for some reason take joy in proclaiming thst thet ARE “catholics” There NOT! If one does not know and life the faith, such ought to refrain from aligning themselves with the CC.:shrug:
~
God gave us an inquiring brain. I wonder why this man didn’t question why these issues seemed so wrong to him without wondering the basis. My parents’ say so isn’t enough. Following the crowd isn’t enough. I should find the reason of my faith; for my faith."

2nd question…
Am I in the minority with the above thought?

SORRY HAS TO SHORTEN THE POST IT EXCEEED THE SIZE LIMITS

Thank you.
And I hope to have posted in the right forum.

Blessings with His Peace
[/quote]

or which we THANK you!

God Bless you,
Patrick

One of my friends, who is substantially older than I, (about 10 years or so), has a similar “story.”
That person left the Catholic-Church in their teens, due to some sort of misunderstanding of the belief and the like.

After a friendly debate we had last week, I’ve decided to just “keep my mouth shut” on certain issues - since (like a lot of the Protestant folk), you can quote from scripture without ignoring what you say and refuting you by claiming you are mis-quoting (etc.).

For a while, I sorta bashed Catholicism myself. But then I felt drawn to the Church, started researching, and then found myself defending them.
I started to attend Mass, and I decided to enrol into an RCIA course.
Careful 'cause its a slippery slope!

My first reaction was “Thank You” , then I noticed all of the “thank you” posts as well. You did good:)

I can’t stand when people do this! When I quote the Bible (which came from the Catholic Church) I’m (apparently) always taking my quotes out of context. I’m so often accused, I decided to coin the acronym “OOC” meaning Out Of Context. Me being accused of taking things OOC is my biggest pet peeve! :frowning: I just can’t understand how they are always correct (to the point of claiming infallibility on certain matters) and I’m always wrong. I have made them come to the realization that they are wrong in this fundamental logic, but it’s too widespread to be acceptable to me.

Sorry to ramble on! It’s just that I deal with strange logic everyday… So I get fed up sometimes. Again I apologize for possibly derailing this thread.

Richard Feynman

:thumbsup: I’m heading that way as we speak!

I recommend you keep leaning. Being Roman Catholic is very fulfilling! :smiley:

To the OP, thank you for your great defense of the faith.

Richard Feynman

I can hear Fr Brian’s exact clear words this Easter Saturday Mass in welcoming the new RCIA converts and a reminder to the congregation was ‘it is your responsibility to educate yourself in the faith during your journey’.

This is what brought me back to Catholic Answers after a absence and I also intend to a Intro Catholic Theology course at the Catholic Adult Education Centre.

Your doing great. Thanks for defending our faith.
Looks like the Holy Spirit is working strong with you.

God bless jesus g

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