Demonic possession of a christian

i tried posting this earlier but it didn’t take

can someone help me explain to my brother and evangelical the answer to this question that he posed to me regarding the movie about emily rose:

I never really believed that a true Christian could be demon possessed. If they can’t stand God’s name or crucifixes and holy water how can they enter someone who has the Holy Spirit living in them? Because of their wickedness, how could they stand to occupy God’s temple with His perfect and infinite holiness?

i want to make sure i give him correct information because i think he is seriously checking into things about the catholic church ~ he is at present an evangelical. i have been praying that he comes back to the catholic church.

thank you very much
ruby

[quote=ruby]i tried posting this earlier but it didn’t take

can someone help me explain to my brother and evangelical the answer to this question that he posed to me regarding the movie about emily rose:

I never really believed that a true Christian could be demon possessed. If they can’t stand God’s name or crucifixes and holy water how can they enter someone who has the Holy Spirit living in them? Because of their wickedness, how could they stand to occupy God’s temple with His perfect and infinite holiness?

i want to make sure i give him correct information because i think he is seriously checking into things about the catholic church ~ he is at present an evangelical. i have been praying that he comes back to the catholic church.

thank you very much
ruby
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While I’m not an expert on exorcisms and such (or well anything, I’m a wannabe theologian, atleast until i get my doctrate) I will pray for you and your brother.

Pax Vobis Semper.

thank you for the prayers and mine for you in choosing your subjects and for a productive school year. ruby

[quote=ruby]thank you for the prayers and mine for you in choosing your subjects and for a productive school year. ruby
[/quote]

Much thanks :thumbsup: We should form a prayer circle here…PM me if you’re interested.

a prayer that i get the answer to my question soon.

I think the answer is that sometimes God allows certain people to come under demonic attack, even become possesed. It’s less to do with the power that Satan has, because the only power he has is what God allows him. Look at some of the Saints, God allowed them to be tormented by demons as a way of testing their faith in Him. And we all know about Job, God let Satan wreak havoc on his life. So as far as Christians being temples of the Holy Spirit, that is true- when we are in a state of grace. However someone with an unrepented mortal sin is spiritually dead. Which I think opens them up to demonic attack and possesion even more. So that’s my explanation.

but wasn’t this girl that the movie exorcism of emily rose was about ~ wasn’t she a very devout catholic?

i like what you said about the devil and that he can’t do anything unless God permits it. that is so true and something we should all think about more often. all the temptations and test are really a training ground to build us up and make us into what God expects us to be.

i still want to know if it is possible for a devout christian to become possessed by the devil.

also when the devil possess someone he possesses them in body only ~ right?
thanks again

Yes, the girl was a devout Catholic. Remembers too, this was a movie and certain facts have been changed to suit the director’s liking. The character from the movie was a devout Catholic, but God allowed to her to become possesed to show the world that Satan exists. The Blessed Mother appeared to her and gave her a chance to die then or live out the next few days, in order to show the world evil. In the movie, her character said, “I chose to stay. People say that there is no God. How can they say that if I sow them the devil?” Or something along those lines. So God allowed her character to become possesed to serve a greater good.

So yes, it is quite possible for a devout Christian to become possesed, if God sees fit.

I think that demons can possess one’s body, but cannot control one’s soul. I’m really not sure on that, someone more theologically knowledgeable would have to answer that. But I do know that the soul is not culpable for its actions while under possesion. Honestly, I don’t really have a solid answer for this one.

that is a good answer

i think i can go with that for my brother
it makes so much sense
thank you for your time and concern ~ i really appreciate it

just in case anyone is interested i just listened to a group called the rock bottom choir ~ they are very good

just go to www.rockbottomchoir.com and you can listen to their songs.
ruby

i love the song “for all the saints”

All I know is if you forget to pay your exorcist, you get repossessed.

Ok, that was stupid.

[quote=Subrosa]All I know is if you forget to pay your exorcist, you get repossessed.

Ok, that was stupid.
[/quote]

To add to the stupidity, if you eat too much while possessed, would you need an “exercist”?

According to the Vatican excorsist Jose’ Maria Fortea in his video Interview With an Exorcist (St. joseph communication), seemingly devout people can become posessed (emphasis on the seemingly) but, as stated earlier, only if God allows it. Some demons take months to exorcise because different demons have different power and if God allows them to use more or less power it can vary. Fortea says they hate it when he tells them he is going to use the expierience in a homily. In the case of this movie it was based on a girl named Annelise Michel in Wurzberg Germany. It was a tragic case and her exocism was only allowed after her extreme behavior started i.e. breaking crucifixes and defacating on herself. The theory is that the priests told her why the initial request for exocism was denied and she began subconciously exhibiting the behavior they said she was missing. I guess she stopped taking her epilepsy medication at some point and died as a result. The German bishops said after the priests involved were found guilty of mmanslaghter that she was not actually posessed. Thousands of people still make pilgrimage to her grave who believe that she was posessed and bravely faced the devil.

Hope this helps!!

[quote=johnnycatholic]The German bishops said after the priests involved were found guilty of mmanslaghter that she was not actually posessed.
[/quote]

Is this an official ruling of the magisterium? This young woman was *not *possessed? Does this mean the Church may sometimes approve an exorcism without being absolutely sure about the cause of someone’s behaviour?

I’m bothered by the assessment above that demonic posession can be ‘allowed by God’ to a person in a state of grace. This to me seems impossible and casts doubt on the efficacy of the sacraments.

I think that there is a vast grey area in demonology, and people often seem to think that demons are sort of ‘let out of the cage’ at God’s whim to assail His people. Think how logically ridiculous this is. Pure spirits–demons too–are all loved by God and were created perfectly good by Him in the beginning. Even those who have eternally deserted His presence retain their gift of Free Will. It is the Holy Angels who protect us from Satan and his cohorts, as well as the presence of the Holy Spirit in us. Even though God does not violate a demon’s free will, their wills abhorr Him because of His perfect goodness.
If God’s presence does not prevent a demon from assailing a person (not forcibly, but by the evil spirit’s own free will which hates Him) in whom He has given His very Spirit–how can we say that He is omnibenevolent?

The sacraments are so important because they are physical signs of God’s grace in us, we who are both Body and Spirit. The sacraments use our bodies to communicate grace to our souls. Grace sanctifies the whole man, and it is a heresy of dualism to separate a human too divisively between either his body or his soul: both are good, intimately united, and should be protected by the grace of the sacraments.
If God’s presence in the sacraments is not effective at preventing demons from posessing our bodies–how can we say that he is omnipotent?

To argue that a Christian in the state of grace is still open to demonic posession throws a terribly doubtful light on the supernatural power–and more importantly, the purpose–of the sacraments: to sanctify a human being, body and soul.

You might argue that the body is not sanctified, and therefore we physically die/decay, while our soul lives on in heaven. Physical death, however, does not mean that the body is not itself in a state of grace, it is only the necessary consequence of Original Sin. The glorious resurrection of those souls who died in a state of grace proves that the whole person is sanctified.

(From my limited knowledge:)

If a person has commited a sin or has been badly sinned against(ie. sexual abuse, etc) this gives legal ground for satan to act in that perosns life. because God is completely just, if Satan asks for that person, and the person has cut themselves from God by mortal sin, then God must give Satan rule over that person. If Satan has rule over that person, then he has legal ground for a demon to enter into the body, which leads to posession. depending on the intensity, repetition, and graveness of the sin, the demon can have more or less control. the only way to be able to remove the demon from his hold is to break all legal ground. this is done by confession, where all things become public, and known, and forgiven. when a sin is forgiven, the legal ground dissolves. then, with no legal ground, a strong christian can take the authority God gives us over that demon, and force it to come out. and in agreement to what was earlier said, this can take extreme amounts of time, and should only be attempted by very knowledgeable, faithful, and strong(in faith and grace) people. based on this, it does not mean a devout person cannot be posessed. Devout people are not free from mortal sin, and even some of this legal ground comes from way back into their youth before they even knew it was possible. this early exposure can come out years later, well into their adult years. this happens especially if they become devout, because the demon feels a strong threat to its hold over the person, and will begin doing all things possible to frighten its captive back into submission.

I was agreeing with you up until the part about being badly sinned against. If someone sins against you, it does not negatively impact the state of your soul. Therefore it cannot take away your sanctifying grace. Also, any power satan might have exists because God allows it. No possession can occur without God. God does not have to give any control to satan over anyone. He is all powerful.

In the article on “Exorcist” in the online Catholic Encyclopedia, the following instruction to the exorcist is given:

He should admonish the possessed, in so far as the latter is capable, to dispose himself for the exorcism by prayer, fasting, confession, and communion, and while the rite is in progress to excite within himself a lively faith in God’s goodness, and a patient resignation to His holy will.

On the basis of this instruction, it would appear that the body of a Christian, even in the state of grace, may be possessed.

I’m reading a book called “Beware The Night”, about a New York city cop who investigates the supernatural.
" A sixteen-year NYPD veteran, Ralph Sarchie, works out of the 46th Precinct in New York’s south Bronx.
Ralph Sarchie also investigates cases of demonic possession, and assists in exorcisms.
Ralph Sarchie stated that some possessions are so strong, that the possessed person can even receive Holy Communion, and the spirit still will not leave.

[quote=Affirmed]I think the answer is that sometimes God allows certain people to come under demonic attack, even become possesed. It’s less to do with the power that Satan has, because the only power he has is what God allows him. Look at some of the Saints, God allowed them to be tormented by demons as a way of testing their faith in Him. And we all know about Job, God let Satan wreak havoc on his life. So as far as Christians being temples of the Holy Spirit, that is true- when we are in a state of grace. However someone with an unrepented mortal sin is spiritually dead. Which I think opens them up to demonic attack and possesion even more. So that’s my explanation.
[/quote]

This is true. God allows some people to be possesed.

I remember a while back, watching the 700 Club, in which Pat robertson was discussing the movie The Exorcist, with a guest who if I can remember was a minister–the denomination I can’t remember. But anyway, this minister stated that if a person is saved, all he has to say to a demon is “begone Statan in the name of Jesus”, and the demon will run like hell.
It was the opinion of this minister that the reason the two priests in the movie had such a hard time with the exorcism, is that they didn’t know Jesus, and weren’t saved.
One wonders if the bigotry against Catholicism will ever end.

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