Detecting FAKE Tongues in Charismatic


#1

1 Cor 14:27-28
27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God.

chapter 28 is the biggest bomb for those who speak fake tongues (and 99% of tongues aout there are fake). If you are amongst believer (in prayer group, church, meeting among fellow Christians, Charismatics group etc) and no one is doing the interpretation THERE SHOULDN’T BE ANY TONGUE SESSION TO BEGIN WITH! KEEP SILENCE! But if they keep flaunting their fake tongue, then it’s obviously a fake and those people need to be shown the error of their practice.

After knowing that it’s fake advise them. If they are being stubborn, shake the dust of your sandals/shoes.


#2

Beng,

But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God.

What is meant by “church” here? Is Charismatic meetings; prayer services; healing services considered “church”?

God bless you


#3

[quote=MIDGIE]Beng,

What is meant by “church” here? Is Charismatic meetings; prayer services; healing services considered “church”?

God bless you
[/quote]

The word “church” in the greek could also mean assembly/congregation.


#4

In this case, I would imagine “in church” is a translation of a phrase meaning something more like “communal worship”. It is not referring to “The Church”, i.e. the one established by Christ, so I think a pentecostal community would qualify in this instance.


#5

[quote=beng]1 Cor 14:27-28
27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God.

chapter 28 is the biggest bomb for those who speak fake tongues (and 99% of tongues aout there are fake). If you are amongst believer (in prayer group, church, meeting among fellow Christians, Charismatics group etc) and no one is doing the interpretation THERE SHOULDN’T BE ANY TONGUE SESSION TO BEGIN WITH! KEEP SILENCE! But if they keep flaunting their fake tongue, then it’s obviously a fake and those people need to be shown the error of their practice.

After knowing that it’s fake advise them. If they are being stubborn, shake the dust of your sandals/shoes.
[/quote]

When I was away from the Church I was with a Charismatic group and was supprised to find that they coached be on speaking in tounges when I asked if the Holy Spirit was not able to fully give the gift? Their reply was sometimes people needed coaching in order to recieve the gift.

So if you want to detect some you may ask if they teach it in sunday school.

Man am I glad Mary brought me home. I was major messed up.


#6

[quote=beng]1 Cor 14:27-28
27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God.

chapter 28 is the biggest bomb for those who speak fake tongues (and 99% of tongues aout there are fake). If you are amongst believer (in prayer group, church, meeting among fellow Christians, Charismatics group etc) and no one is doing the interpretation THERE SHOULDN’T BE ANY TONGUE SESSION TO BEGIN WITH! KEEP SILENCE! But if they keep flaunting their fake tongue, then it’s obviously a fake and those people need to be shown the error of their practice.

After knowing that it’s fake advise them. If they are being stubborn, shake the dust of your sandals/shoes.
[/quote]

Hi beng,
Allow me to clarify this point…this particular passage actually doesnt talk about praying in tongues, this indicates prophecy in tongues. There are times when a prophecy of the Spirit comes forth in tongues and then it requires interpretation.
The praying in tongues is different, it is meant for personal edification only…and the person speaks “mysteries in spirit” when “no one listens” (1 Cor 14:2)
You see here, St.Paul speaks about interpretation of tongues, which is required for prophecies which come in tongues.

So why do prophecies come in tongues bypassing the normal route? When a prophecy comes in tongues, you can be sure that what the person speaks is not what he has interpreted from the impression placed on him by the Spirit…this is just straight in the Lords own words. Again, please dont confuse this with the office of the prophet - thats not what this gift is about. The gift of prophecy is to aid people currently needing help…be it induviduals, the community or whatever…it can even be a message of consolation…something like “I hold you in the palm of my hands”…the name can be a little misleading but this is not the office of the prophet.
For eg.,
"And the next day we that were of Paul’s company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist; which was one of the seven; and abode with him. And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy” "(Acts 21:8-9).

Here it talks about four daughters of a family having the gift of prophecy…surely this does not talk of tehm as prophets - a distinction is made for example when the Bible mentions others as prophets - eg Agabus who predicted the famine.

Hope this helps…the charismatic movement may appear a little strange…and true, a lot of immature catholics have not really helped by doing a lot of damage…but it has been a great source of revival for the church in several places…and the gifts of the holy Spirit are beautiful…you need to “strive eagerly for the greatest spiritual gifts”

Blessings,
Leo


#7

[quote=epiphania]Hi beng,
Allow me to clarify this point…this particular passage actually doesnt talk about praying in tongues, this indicates prophecy in tongues. There are times when a prophecy of the Spirit comes forth in tongues and then it requires interpretation.
The praying in tongues is different, it is meant for personal edification only…and the person speaks “mysteries in spirit” when “no one listens” (1 Cor 14:2)
You see here, St.Paul speaks about interpretation of tongues, which is required for prophecies which come in tongues.

So why do prophecies come in tongues bypassing the normal route? When a prophecy comes in tongues, you can be sure that what the person speaks is not what he has interpreted from the impression placed on him by the Spirit…this is just straight in the Lords own words. Again, please dont confuse this with the office of the prophet - thats not what this gift is about. The gift of prophecy is to aid people currently needing help…be it induviduals, the community or whatever…it can even be a message of consolation…something like “I hold you in the palm of my hands”…the name can be a little misleading but this is not the office of the prophet.
For eg.,
"And the next day we that were of Paul’s company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist; which was one of the seven; and abode with him. And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy” "(Acts 21:8-9).

Here it talks about four daughters of a family having the gift of prophecy…surely this does not talk of tehm as prophets - a distinction is made for example when the Bible mentions others as prophets - eg Agabus who predicted the famine.

Hope this helps…the charismatic movement may appear a little strange…and true, a lot of immature catholics have not really helped by doing a lot of damage…but it has been a great source of revival for the church in several places…and the gifts of the holy Spirit are beautiful…you need to “strive eagerly for the greatest spiritual gifts”

Blessings,
Leo
[/quote]

I will adress this later but here’re some preliminarry thoughts.

Those warning is when a person suddenly speak tongues in the church. That would mean that he’s amongst believer. SO TONGUE IS NOT NECESSARY FOR BELIEVERS UNLESS IT’'S A PROPHESY!

Thus, if some “Charismaticist” compell to speak tongue in front of prayer groups etc, THERE BETTER BE one interpreter! If not, then she/he is disobedience to Paul and most likely a fake.


#8

[quote=beng]1 Cor 14:27-28
27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God.

chapter 28 is the biggest bomb for those who speak fake tongues (and 99% of tongues aout there are fake). If you are amongst believer (in prayer group, church, meeting among fellow Christians, Charismatics group etc) and no one is doing the interpretation THERE SHOULDN’T BE ANY TONGUE SESSION TO BEGIN WITH! KEEP SILENCE! But if they keep flaunting their fake tongue, then it’s obviously a fake and those people need to be shown the error of their practice.
[/quote]

First let me say that I firmly believe that tongues was a sign for the early church which no longer exists today.

Regarding interpretations, in the past, I’ve gone to both Pentecostal, non-Catholic charismatic, and Catholic Charismatic services. Usually, almost everyone in these meetings are speaking in tongues at some point or another. Within the majority of these meetings no one ever interprets.

One other thing that bothers me about tongues is that the majority of those I’ve heard “speaking” these tongues, don’t sound like they are speaking a language (known or unknown) at all. It is usually the same sounds over and over almost as if it were a chant. And then there is the “excessive” interpretations that come from time to time. The “tongue speaker” will “prophecy” for about 30 seconds and then the interpreter will give a 10 minute (or longer) interpretation. I have yet to hear a language where a 30 second statement takes 10 minutes or more to interpret.

Peace,
CM


#9

[quote=beng]I will adress this later but here’re some preliminarry thoughts.

Those warning is when a person suddenly speak tongues in the church. That would mean that he’s amongst believer. SO TONGUE IS NOT NECESSARY FOR BELIEVERS UNLESS IT’'S A PROPHESY!

Thus, if some “Charismaticist” compell to speak tongue in front of prayer groups etc, THERE BETTER BE one interpreter! If not, then she/he is disobedience to Paul and most likely a fake.
[/quote]

Youre mixing up beng…first of all there is no need for a person to “suddenly” speak in tongues…if some do so, it might be due to their immaturity or they simply sometimes being too excited and not knowing how to handle the beautiful gift.
“For the spirit of the prophet is under the prophets control” 1 Cor 14:32-38
Fake tongues is just one of the possible causes - and a very small one. Again, if its fake, if the person is making it up, then it is again in his control,if he suddenly speaks its just to attract attention…

As I mentioned earlier…only prophecy which comes in tongues is interpreted…prayer in tongues, as far as I have heard and seen,is not something meant for interpretation.
Let me give you an example of prophecy in tongues…This happened in a city in India…
there was a prayer group which met regularly in a house and one of the meetings, as they were praying, one of the members started praying in tongues, (at that time, he did not realise it was actually prophecy)
After sometime, there was a knock at the door and they found a woman whom they did not know asking something in a language they did not understand…then she spoke in a common language and she said that she had been planning on committing suicide and was passing by their house when she heard someone speaking in her native tongue (Gujarati) and the words were a direct message from God to her…saying He loved her and an answer to the distress which had driven her to suicide…she came in…(she was not a christian)…and wanted to know about the Lord…they told her…

recently, some very close friends of mine were coming back from a convention and in the train while all of them were talking, one of my friends, a seminarian, was trying to explain some of the gods of hinduism and how they actually have roots in christian faith which they have grasped partially…and a stranger travelling with them overheard this and wanted to listen…at the end of the whole thing,he was so moved, he wanted to know more about who this Jesus was…they told him…it went on the whole night…and finally he wanted to give his life to the Lord and they baptised him in the train itself, (now,dont start picking on this…it was necessary at that time…)
and you know what happened? this hindu man started speaking in tongues! and they hadnt even told him about this gift!!
I could go on…but theres a line where you have to cross…thats experience…just observation will never teach you…you will only keep judging what you dont understand fully…

Blessings,
Leo


#10

LEO. I just want you to know im here on the sidelines praying in tongues and praising God for the wonderful job you are doing. Some of us just have a more gentle and patient spirit to deal with unbelievers. Well anyways keep up the good work. :thumbsup:


#11

Hey beng,

I went to a charismatic Episcopal church for 3 years and someone spoke in toungues a handful of times. It was always after the praise music ended and there was ALWAYS an interpretation. Very ordered. The interpretations were always relevant and never heretical, even by Catholic standards. So would this be the 1%?

To this day some of it seemed phony to me but I have been around enought charismatics to know that for the most part their theology is more in line with Rome than that of most Protestants. I know of charismatics who pray the rosary and I saw a guy on the Journey Home who had a legit gift of healing that he learned he had as a Pentacostal pastor.

I wouldn’t bash charismatics too much. They are coming home to Rome in droves because they are in touch with the Holy Spirit in a non-intellectual way. They desire deeply to surrender to Christ and when they hear about the Eucharist, they usually respond very positively. This will continue beng. There will be more on the way.


#12

[quote=epiphania]Youre mixing up beng…first of all there is no need for a person to “suddenly” speak in tongues…if some do so, it might be due to their immaturity or they simply sometimes being too excited and not knowing how to handle the beautiful gift.“For the spirit of the prophet is under the prophets control” 1 Cor 14:32-38
[/quote]

That is why that one does not need to speak!!!

If they persist to speak tongue when threre’re no interpreter than the other should stop him or her.

The true spirit WILL NOT act contrary to what Paul said.

Fake tongues is just one of the possible causes - and a very small one.

The other possible cause is disobedience to what Paul said.

And no, the possibility of fake is a big one. As long as tongue are heard in a congregation of believers without interpretation it would be fake. Just some jubilation chanting that other “think” it’s tongue.

Again, if its fake, if the person is making it up, then it is again in his control,if he suddenly speaks its just to attract attention…

This 99% of Charismatic.

As I mentioned earlier…only prophecy which comes in tongues is interpreted…prayer in tongues, as far as I have heard and seen,is not something meant for interpretation.

If you want to pray in tongue than DO NOT FLAUNT IT IN FRONT OF THE BELIEVERS!!!

If you can’t interpret it and you are amongst believers BE QUIET!

Let me give you an example of prophecy in tongues…This happened in a city in India…
there was a prayer group which met regularly in a house and one of the meetings, as they were praying, one of the members started praying in tongues, (at that time, he did not realise it was actually prophecy)

Was there an interpreter? Did he interpret it for other. If not, then it’s fake.

After sometime, there was a knock at the door and they found a woman whom they did not know asking something in a language they did not understand…then she spoke in a common language and she said that she had been planning on committing suicide and was passing by their house when she heard someone speaking in her native tongue (Gujarati) and the words were a direct message from God to her…saying He loved her and an answer to the distress which had driven her to suicide…she came in…(she was not a christian)…and wanted to know about the Lord…they told her…

Then maybe this is true tongue. Which consist of the 1% while 99% out there are fake.

recently, some very close friends of mine were coming back from a convention and in the train while all of them were talking, one of my friends, a seminarian, was trying to explain some of the gods of hinduism and how they actually have roots in christian faith which they have grasped partially…and a stranger travelling with them overheard this and wanted to listen…at the end of the whole thing,he was so moved, he wanted to know more about who this Jesus was…they told him…it went on the whole night…and finally he wanted to give his life to the Lord and they baptised him in the train itself, (now,dont start picking on this…it was necessary at that time…)
and you know what happened? this hindu man started speaking in tongues! and they hadnt even told him about this gift!!
I could go on…but theres a line where you have to cross…thats experience…just observation will never teach you…you will only keep judging what you dont understand fully…

Blessings,
Leo

Was there an interpreter?

If there was no interpreter and he’s speaking in front of believer (there were only believers right) then it is fake.

He’s just doing jubilation. Emotion escalation might do that.


#13

[quote=weunice]Hey beng,

I went to a charismatic Episcopal church for 3 years and someone spoke in toungues a handful of times. It was always after the praise music ended and there was ALWAYS an interpretation. Very ordered. The interpretations were always relevant and never heretical, even by Catholic standards. So would this be the 1%?
[/quote]

AHA! You must check if the interpretation is true or not.
Since the interpretation is not heretical then it might be true. However, to be REALLY^ sure that it’s a true tongue, maybe that interpreter need to confirm with another interpreter or the one speaking the tongue. If their words don’t contradict each others than it’s gotta be true.

To this day some of it seemed phony to me but I have been around enought charismatics to know that for the most part their theology is more in line with Rome than that of most Protestants. I know of charismatics who pray the rosary and I saw a guy on the Journey Home who had a legit gift of healing that he learned he had as a Pentacostal pastor.

I wouldn’t bash charismatics too much. They are coming home to Rome in droves because they are in touch with the Holy Spirit in a non-intellectual way. They desire deeply to surrender to Christ and when they hear about the Eucharist, they usually respond very positively. This will continue beng. There will be more on the way.

Well, my advice was to ban:

  1. All the fake tongue by aplying Paul’s standard (which would be 99% of tongue)
  2. The sugar coated sermon
  3. Laying hands

Then we would really se a TRUE Charismatic movement.


#14

[quote=SPOKENWORD]LEO. I just want you to know im here on the sidelines praying in tongues and praising God for the wonderful job you are doing.
[/quote]

If you do it alone then there’s still possibility that it fakes. Altough it won’t be an obvious fake if you do it in front of the congregation.

Some of us just have a more gentle and patient spirit to deal with unbelievers. Well anyways keep up the good work. :thumbsup:

Oh good. Label those who “just don’t get it” an unbelievers.

Are you gonna speak tongue in front of us now since we are unbelievers?


#15

[quote=Churchmouse]“First let me say that I firmly believe that tongues was a sign for the early church which no longer exists today.”
[/quote]

Well, ok, but then you dismiss outright what many Catholics are saying in these threads about tongues.

I ask all those who have had bad experiences to not let that deter you from asking God with all humility and in earnest to show you if tongues is a real expression of our Faith and love for God TODAY. Don’t throw out the good with the bad out of fear or a ‘thank God I am not like them’ attitude. I too had an off-putting experience concerning tongues and of course, as in any area of our Christian walk with fallible brothers and sisters - ourselves too (yes really!), we will come across mis-use, abuse, ignorance etc… But we truly need to not let this be a source of conflict or division, arrogance or superiority - either way.

If I am cynical about this gift, I need only to look at the character and vibrant faith of those in my church who do indeed sing and pray in tongues: I see their lived-out compassion and solid grasp of Catholic teaching; their commitment to the sacraments and devotion to our Lord Jesus Christ and to Mary.

Let the Holy Spirit himself be the one who gives us discernment on these matters and let’s watch for the fruit of those who profess to have received these gifts.

In His Name and for His sake,


#16

Let me re-address this

[quote=epiphania]Hi beng,
Allow me to clarify this point…this particular passage actually doesnt talk about praying in tongues, this indicates prophecy in tongues. There are times when a prophecy of the Spirit comes forth in tongues and then it requires interpretation.
The praying in tongues is different, it is meant for personal edification only…and the person speaks “mysteries in spirit” when “no one listens” (1 Cor 14:2)
You see here, St.Paul speaks about interpretation of tongues, which is required for prophecies which come in tongues.
[/quote]

When you pray in tongue and there are no interpreter then DO NOT FLAUNT IT LIKE WHAT FREQUENTLY HAPPEN DURING CHARISMATIC PRAYER MEETING!!

So why do prophecies come in tongues bypassing the normal route?

What do you meant by normal route?

When a prophecy comes in tongues, you can be sure that what the person speaks is not what he has interpreted from the impression placed on him by the Spirit…this is just straight in the Lords own words.

It doesn’t rellay matter whether the tongue spoken is prophesy or not.

If it’s spoken in front of the congregation WITHOUT interpreter, then it’s fake and contrary to Paul’s words.

Again, please dont confuse this with the office of the prophet - thats not what this gift is about. The gift of prophecy is to aid people currently needing help…be it induviduals, the community or whatever…it can even be a message of consolation…something like “I hold you in the palm of my hands”…the name can be a little misleading but this is not the office of the prophet.
For eg.,
"And the next day we that were of Paul’s company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist; which was one of the seven; and abode with him. And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy” "(Acts 21:8-9).

Here it talks about four daughters of a family having the gift of prophecy…surely this does not talk of tehm as prophets - a distinction is made for example when the Bible mentions others as prophets - eg Agabus who predicted the famine.

I don’t know if this relevant.

My point is that, if someone is speaking in front of congregation in “tongue” but there was no interpreter then he should be silent.

If he speaks despite there’s no interpretation, then it’s fake. Case closed.

Hope this helps…the charismatic movement may appear a little strange…and true, a lot of immature catholics have not really helped by doing a lot of damage…but it has been a great source of revival for the church in several places…and the gifts of the holy Spirit are beautiful…you need to “strive eagerly for the greatest spiritual gifts”

Blessings,
Leo

Wanna stay true to Charismatic movement?

Get rid of:

  1. Fake Tongue (which is 99% of tongue out there)
  2. Get rid of sugar coated prayer/sermon ala Protestant
  3. No protestant flavour "Slain in the Spirit and the heretical Baptism in the Holy spirit
  4. No calpping at Mass etc.

#17

I’ve been reading through this thread and the previous thread and I must admit that I really don’t understand Beng’s intense opposition to what has been describes as “fake tongues.” Beng has consistently proclaimed that unless it passes the test it is not real and it is therefore not from God, but didn’t Jesus himself say that we are not to put God to the test? Mt 4:7. I for one would rather be disobeying Paul’s instructions to the Corinthians that I would want to disobey Jesus himself. I think that it is also important to read the Paulist letters in the context of who they were written for. When I took my RCIA class last year, our Deacon always encouraged me to read the scripture for its full context, or we are in danger of becoming fundamentalist in our reading. I really don’t see why Bengs seems so focused on the need for an interpretor to verify the validity of the tongues. That reasoning seems as ignorant as if we were in a room of English speakers and someone suddenly started speaking in German and we being Americans who don’t know how to speak German would profess that it is a fake language that doesn’t mean anything.

I’ve been to different types of Charismatic prayer meetings. Some are very formal with organized periods in which the congregation will pray in tongues only during a very holy moments, such as after a prayer that invokes the Holy Spirit or a prayer that is focused on “High Priase” to God. In these moments those that do pray in tongues do so in a private way and do not force or belittle others that do not speak in tongues to do so. I have also been to more informal meetings in which the entire prayer meeting seems to be focused on the tongues and if you don’t speak tongues you would feel left out. Maybe the second type is the more flaunting type that Beng speaks of, but I think that what Beng might be missing from his/her experiences is that most of Beng’s experiences are observation. For those that do speak in tongues the interpretation is there in their hearts, people understand that the gift of tongues is a personal prayer to God. If prophecy does occur, then praise God! But if prophecy does not occur, I do not see why we need to belittle those that are open to God.


#18

[quote=Anthony]I’ve been reading through this thread and the previous thread and I must admit that I really don’t understand Beng’s intense opposition to what has been describes as “fake tongues.”
[/quote]

To save souls

Beng has consistently proclaimed that unless it passes the test it is not real and it is therefore not from God, but didn’t Jesus himself say that we are not to put God to the test? Mt 4:7.

First of all, Tongues is NOT God (a skewed charismatic freudian slip?)

Second of all, if it’s FAKE, like 99% of em, then it’s not putting God to the test.

I for one would rather be disobeying Paul’s instructions to the Corinthians that I would want to disobey Jesus himself.

What a Protestant way of thinking. By that statement you are questioning the authority of the inspired scripture. The Holy Spirit would not contradict itself.

Plus, there’s always this verse:

Lu 10:16
"He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

I think that it is also important to read the Paulist letters in the context of who they were written for. When I took my RCIA class last year, our Deacon always encouraged me to read the scripture for its full context, or we are in danger of becoming fundamentalist in our reading.

Correct.

You may want to refer to Newadvent.org for understanding of the context concerning tongue. Click Here

I really don’t see why Bengs seems so focused on the need for an interpretor to verify the validity of the tongues.

Read the verse on this initial post.

That reasoning seems as ignorant as if we were in a room of English speakers and someone suddenly started speaking in German and we being Americans who don’t know how to speak German would profess that it is a fake language that doesn’t mean anything.

Well, that is what Paul said. Read the verse. If there’s no interpreter then DON’T SAY IT!! No need to speak tongues in front of believer when there’s no interpreter. It doesn’t edify the church. Why don’t you read the verse?

I’ve been to different types of Charismatic prayer meetings. Some are very formal with organized periods in which the congregation will pray in tongues only during a very holy moments,

Was there an interpreter? If not than it’s wrong according to the Bible. Amongst believer, there has to be an interpreter.

such as after a prayer that invokes the Holy Spirit or a prayer that is focused on “High Priase” to God.

Invoke Holy Spirit? HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD!

In these moments those that do pray in tongues do so in a private way and do not force or belittle others that do not speak in tongues to do so.

As long as they do it within the congregation then IT’S NEVER APPROPRIATE! Read the verse.

If they wanna do it in private, then do it in private in their own time. If they wanna do it in a congregation, there better be an interpreter.

I have also been to more informal meetings in which the entire prayer meeting seems to be focused on the tongues and if you don’t speak tongues you would feel left out.

Worst

Maybe the second type is the more flaunting type that Beng speaks of,

I think both are wrong. Altho the second one is worst.

but I think that what Beng might be missing from his/her experiences is that most of Beng’s experiences are observation.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Just like the comment of many Charismatics. Three people already come to that conclusion. However one poster David Ancell already said how he attend the so call Life In The Spirit seminar and didn’t get in tune with the Charismatic craze. Are you gonna say that he’s just observing?

So anyone who don’t get it are just observing???

For those that do speak in tongues the interpretation is there in their hearts, people understand that the gift of tongues is a personal prayer to God.

If it in their heart, feel free to communicate it to the congregation. If not then keep it to yourselves.

If prophecy does occur, then praise God! But if prophecy does not occur, I do not see why we need to belittle those that are open to God.

Prophecy or interpretationMUST occur because that is what Pauls said. It’s in the Bible. The Bible is innerant.

Really, if the tongues are real, then it wouldn’t be so hard to ask for interpretation. But why is that 99% of Charismatic movement just do tongue without interpretation?

One could already smell that something’s wrong.


#19

Can one quote oneself here? I see that we’ve moved the “tongues” issue to its own thread.

What I posted from the other thread …

Another question came to my mind … Paul is addressing the church at Corinth, to correct some problems and “show (them) a still more excellent way” (1 Cor 12:31b) and most of chapter 14 is about the use of tongues in the church. What does Paul not call it “Fake Tongues”? It was obviously happening, the dis-order and dis-organization.

The reason is, IMHO, that the tongues Paul was addressing were NOT fake, only used inappropriately. Thus, beng, your “challenge” is not valid. Paul never goes so far as to even imply that they were faking it, or that it was not “tongues”, but just some babbling. Paul addresses it as tongues.

I propose that your use of the term and meaning of “Fake Tongues” is non-biblical. Can you show that this term is biblical or that Paul is saying that it is fake?

To say the tongues are FAKE means that it is not a gift from God that the person is exercising. It means that it is the person’s own humanness that is coming up with the words. This is NOT what Paul is addressing at all in this 1 Cor 14. Paul is addressing order.

1 Cor 14
"39Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way. "

I do not see the “unless they pass the test” anywhere here in Pauls words.

Even in the New Advent aritcle you posted it says

What today purports to be the “gift of tongues” at certain Protestant revivals is a fair reproduction of Corinthian glossolaly,

glossolaly = Gift of Tongues

The New Advent article does NOT say it is FAKE, in fact is says that it is “a fair reproduction”. Not FAKE.


#20

CG,
You quoted the encyclopedia a little out of context when you declared it not fake. The lines preceding your quote make me cautious of this idea:

There is enough in St. Paul to show us that the Corinthian peculiarities were ignoble accretions and abuses. They made of “tongues” a source of schism in the Church and of scandal without (14:23). The charism had deteriorated into a mixture of meaningless inarticulate gabble (9, 10) with an element of uncertain sounds (7, 8), which sometimes might be construed as little short of blasphemous (12:3). The Divine praises were recognized now and then, but the general effect was one of confusion and disedification for the very unbelievers for whom the normal gift was intended (14:22, 23, 26). The Corinthians, misled not by insincerity but by simplicity and ignorance (20), were actuated by an undisciplined religious spirit (pneuma), or rather by frenzied emotions and not by the understanding (nous) of the Spirit of God

Quoted for context from the Encyclopedia


Personally, I believe God is Truth and if people are speaking incoherently or inchoately without meaning, I find that hard to believe to be of a divine origin. The original context was that tongues INCREASED verbal communication allowing the apostles to preach the Gospel across language barriers. This other charismatic glossalalia seems the opposite babbling words that neither the speaker nor the hearer comprehends.

So it doesn’t make sense to me. That doesn’t mean I am not wrong, just that I would rather pursue a certain path laid out with the surety of Christ’s promises than experiment. Maybe I am wrong, but that’s my current feeling. Thanks for listening.

peace


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