Detroit's Tridentine Mass

I would like to ask everyone in the Detroit area who is currently attending or has attended the Tridentine Mass at St. Josaphat to share their personal feelings about how the mass has been doing so far since October 3, 2004 and if they’ve felt anything special spiritually.
Also if anyone feels that it would be good to have the Tridentine indult in another church in addition to St. Josaphat, to share their feelings.

Hello,
I actually have nothing but positive things to say about the mass in Detroit. I don’t get out there too often being in Ann Arbor, but I try to at least once a month. One thing I can say, they did it right for the most part: stunning church, good celebrants (especially Fr. Kosnac), good music.

I attended this past Sunday after a hiatus for a while (gas prices are just getting too expensive nowadays) and it was truly a beautiful experience. I guess the best thing that its done is that its got me interested in the whole history of Catholicism. I remember attending my Father’s old parish from his youth when I was a youngster and seeing the high altar and wondering what in the world it was there for and why they had a model of a church behind it. Please understand, my childhood parish is a concrete block with an obscenely large concrete “embracing cross” (don’t ask) jutting from the roof. Oddly enough, ugly though that church is, it still has a warm spot in my heart. But i digress…

Attending mass at St. Josaphat has given me an appreciation for the church that I never really had before. I must say that whenever I have the option now, I’ll try and find a 1962 mass to attend. I don’t question validity, licitness, and all the arguements etc…etc… of the new mass per say. I just have a preference for the older mass now(though soon I am going to attend a Ruthenian Liturgy, I have no idea what to expect).

My wife and I have attended twice now. Both very beautiful experiences.

And it turns out, my wife and the music director went to High School together ( Assumption in Windsor) :smiley:

We would like to go more, but getting 4 kids out and down there is quite the experience in and of itself.

Hi pm1853,

Since the PM notification system seems not to be working especially well, I wanted to let you know I sent you a PM concerning the Ruthenian Liturgy, as I didn’t want to hijack this thread.

Mr.Brendan:
What only four kids!??!?! I’m kidding though. I really admire those people with 6+ children who somehow control them!

Pm1853:
Comeback more often you hear?

CathMass:
Every parish should have the TLM! I don’t believe one parish should keep it hidden in a little corner. I want to share the gold…
Anyways good parishes for a Traditional Mass are St.Joseph’s, Sweetest Heart of Mary, Old St.Mary’s,St.Florian’s, and St.Ladislaus in Hamtramck. The reason I say St.Ladislaus’s is because the parish is in financial troubles and an FSSP parish might make the church and the whole neighborhood stronger. Just a personal idea, though

[quote=katolik]Mr.Brendan:
What only four kids!??!?! I’m kidding though. I really admire those people with 6+ children who somehow control them!

[/quote]

Hey, give us a break. #4 is only 8 weeks old. We can only have 'em so fast 'ya know :wink:

And controlling them is easy, God gives parents of large families the power of “THE STARE”. The effects are similar to a Taser, but it doesn’t need batteries and even works through walls :eek:

I do not believe that it is in our best interests to have a second TLM in the Archdiocese at this time.

First, it would have the effect of reducing attendance at St. Josaphat, which would reduce the already meager collection (our biggest problem) and therefore might ultimately cost us use of this magnificent church. You can be pro-TLM as much as you want, but churches have expenses, and a tiny TLM can’t pay for use of a large church.

Second, “marketing” and operating this TLM has taken a significant amount of time as well as money. Adding a second TLM would require a similar effort, and I question who would step forward to actually do the work. You don’t just “ask” for a TLM, any more than you would just ask for a new public library to be built near you. You work for it!

Third, I doubt the Archdiocese would be interested in permitting a second TLM, for reasons both logical and political.

Fourth, people need to remember that barely 6 miles away from St. Josaphat is the Windsor TLM at St. Michael’s. That is a smaller community, and while it has many merits, a larger community as we have at St. Josaphat at least offers the possibility of having a fuller parish life with daily Mass and additional devotions, when permission is granted. If only 30 people come to your Sunday Mass, how likely is it that you will justify a daily Mass?

In summary, at this stage, Detroit needs one strong TLM. St. Josaphat’s is in its infancy. Many concrete plans, and not just dreams, are in the works for the future. Give the situation time, prayer, and if you live in the area, your volunteer time. Down the road, there may be justifiable reasons for additional locations, but now is not that time.

Thank You AlexB for your input. :slight_smile:
To all the posters I just want to mention that AlexB is with St. Josaphat’s Tridentine Mass committee as mentioned with an older thread put up about Detroit’s Indult.
I do agree with Alex on the mass being kept at St. Josaphat. I really wish that the Cardinal would allow it as soon as possible.

So now I would now like to ask about what other people may think about having a daily indult mass in our Detroit area and should it be in the morning or in the afternoon for us working people. Also as far as Thursday it would be great to have a Novus Ordo Mass with Black Madonna Novena as well as a Tridentine Mass with Black Madonna Novena.
Also you can still share your thoughts about the mass in Detroit and offer your support.

-CathMass

Things have come a long way since last October. There is now rosary and confession before mass, use of incense, a scheduled high mass on 4/3 and a fundraiser on 4/17. It was a blessing that a church run by Fr. Borkowski was selected for the TLM, I had no idea he’d be so involved. Frs. Kosnac and Seitz have in particular been great celebrants.

I’d like to see the TLM return to parishes that already have a latin tradition, Gregorian chant and a communion rail in use. There are several in Detroit, many parishioners of these churches have been asking for the TLM for years, but for a variety of reasons are reluctant to change parishes. More practically the mass at St Josaphat ought to be ran at a parish level and expanded to include at least holy days and first Fridays before offering the mass at additional parishes on Sundays.

They really have come a long way. Fr. Borkowski seems really supportive of this mass. Its incredible the variety that they have at his 3 churches (Latin Novus Ordo, Tridentine, German, occasional Polish, and English) and he seems to work hard for all of them.

Though it would be nice to see the mass expanded, its probably going to take a while simply because its still a pretty small congregation that attends this one. Who knows, this could be the beginning of some growth in Fr. B’s tri-parish.

Actually a FSSP/ICKSP priest or two would ease Father’s burden. He has two Good Friday services to say this year! It is also known commonly that with the work of a fulltime priest saying the TLM daily the parish grows even more. This is a well known fact.

The only diocesean priest that could serve the parish full time is Fr.Seitz since he lives in the area and doesn’t have his own parish.
Also I have heard that retired Bp.Schoenherr would be willing to say the TLM in Detroit but that has been just rumor.

Hey our congregation increases with every sunday now!!! Don’t give people the impression we are a bunch of dead people!

Chris:
Every parish deserves the TLM, even if they don’t know about it. Every parish should have the TLM sunday and daily but the people above don’t want that.

I want to point out that Fr. Borkowski is planning a special Latin Mass (Novus Ordo) at St. Josaphat and it will involve the Tridentine Community. It will be “ad orientam” and communion at the rail. Also there will be Tenebrae and Gregorian Chant.
As far as the Black Madonna Novena is concerned I am unsure however Thursday is the normal day for the novena .

[quote=katolik]Also I have heard that retired Bp.Schoenherr would be willing to say the TLM in Detroit but that has been just rumor.

.
[/quote]

I wonder if Bishop Reiss would be interested as well? I know that prior to his elevation and while hs was pastor at St. Frances Cabrini, he took time out of his busy week as pastor to teach Latin at Cabrini High.

Bishop Reiss has done the Mass and does it with such reverence as well as Bishop Quinn and Bishop Boyea.
Bishop Anderson was supposed to do the Tridentine Mass once but he didn’t show up and Fr. Borkowski had to take over
I wish Bishop Hurly would do the mass and on the 1 year anniversary in October I wish Cardinal Maida would do it.
Bishop Boyea will preside on Easter Sunday

[quote=CathMass]I want to point out that Fr. Borkowski is planning a special Latin Mass (Novus Ordo) at St. Josaphat and it will involve the Tridentine Community. It will be “ad orientam” and communion at the rail. Also there will be Tenebrae and Gregorian Chant.
As far as the Black Madonna Novena is concerned I am unsure however Thursday is the normal day for the novena .
[/quote]

It’s still not the TLM. Nothing else will suffice in our Latin church.
Ecclesia Dei demands that the demands of the faithful be heard.

[quote=CathMass]Bishop Reiss has done the Mass and does it with such reverence as well as Bishop Quinn and Bishop Boyea.
Bishop Anderson was supposed to do the Tridentine Mass once but he didn’t show up and Fr. Borkowski had to take over
I wish Bishop Hurly would do the mass and on the 1 year anniversary in October I wish Cardinal Maida would do it.
Bishop Boyea will preside on Easter Sunday
[/quote]

CathMass:
You know who I am and I know who you are and please use Traditional dictonomy for the TLM. The priests doesn’t preside over Mass but he celebrates it. Oh yeah and come to St.Josaphat at 2 pm Saturday. You know what, I hope you have remembered.

Katolik:
I know it is for the Missa Solemnis, however I will be out of town with some folks who you know until 4:30 PM on Saturday
This was planned a month ago.
I will be around on Sunday as always so if the rite must be discussed then so be it. It can run through it at 8:15 AM if you want.

Also “preside” is what some paper said (particularly about the Pope) but from now on then I won’t use Novus Ordo terms.

As far as Holy Thursday is concerned I am not going to a SSPX church period!

Also doesn’t Windsor do Holy Days?
Also if the Cardinal is going to listen to us, we need to be more persistent with him.
By the way the last post you made was a bit cryptic at the start.

St. Michael’s in Windsor will not be having a Holy Thursday TLM. The pastor, Fr. Roche, is trying to arrange a last minute Good Friday service for 5:30 PM, but we don’t know for sure yet if that will happen.

As for Holy Days, yes, St. Michael’s has the TLM on all Holy Days. The catch is, in Canada, there are only two Holy Days, Christmas Day and New Year’s Day. Holy Thursday is not a Holy Day there or in the U.S.

The Novus Ordo Latin Mass that Fr. Borkowski has planned for St. Josaphat on Holy Thursday is the best he can do for us given the present restrictions on the TLM. Fr. Borkowski did not have to do this; an English Mass would have satisfied the other members of the cluster. But he is doing it this way, specifically for the benefit of the Tridentine Community. He is not to be criticized, but thanked for this gesture.

Patience, prudence, and prayer are necessary to move the process along for relaxed restrictions on the TLM.

Thanks for the post.

I am very pleased with Fr. Borkowski’s plan for Holy Thursday and I do plan on attending. It is just as good as a TLM and we all must remember that Novus Ordo is still valid.

:blessyou:

Fr. Borkowski did not have to do this; an English Mass would have satisfied the other members of the cluster. But he is doing it this way, specifically for the benefit of the Tridentine Community. He is not to be criticized, but thanked for this gesture.

Amen to that. From what little I know of him, he seems to work really hard maintaining those 3 parishes with masses in English, Latin, German, and Polish.

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