Devotion to Mary is it ever "to much"


#1

“Nothing is to much when it comes to honoring the Immaculate Virgin” [1413]
(St. Faustina)

“Jesus was the first to honor her as His very Mother and we must imitate Him also in this. We will never, as much as we try, love Her with a love equal to that which Jesus loves her.”
(St. Maximilian Kolbe)

So why so much “caution” when speaking of devotion to Mary. It is not to be put on the same level as the saints because of Her complete link to Christ. The Saints say it can never be to much!

Devotion to Her should be next to Christ!


#2

Devotion to Her should be next to Christ!

i agree


#3

[quote="De_Montfort, post:1, topic:286310"]
"Nothing is to much when it comes to honoring the Immaculate Virgin" 1413

"Jesus was the first to honor her as His very Mother and we must imitate Him also in this. We will never, as much as we try, love Her with a love equal to that which Jesus loves her."
(St. Maximilian Kolbe)

So why so much "caution" when speaking of devotion to Mary. It is not to be put on the same level as the saints because of Her complete link to Christ. The Saints say it can never be to much!

Devotion to Her should be next to Christ!

[/quote]

I know there has been controversy in the Church in the past. For example, there was some who charged that some Latin American churches seemed to almost worship Mary over Christ. Also some Protestants have maintained that honoring of Mary should be kept to a minimum and therefore have criticised Catholics over this.

Personally I feel the same as you, St. Faustina and others who believe devotion to Mary the Mother of God is never "too much".


#4

[quote="De_Montfort, post:1, topic:286310"]

Devotion to Her should be next to Christ!

[/quote]

Next to or secondary to?


#5

Mary led me out of the wilderness of sin and to her Son. She helped me to repent and change my life. How can I be overly devoted to her?


#6

[quote="Hild_e_gard, post:3, topic:286310"]
I know there has been controversy in the Church in the past. For example, there was some who charged that some Latin American churches seemed to almost worship Mary over Christ. Also some Protestants have maintained that honoring of Mary should be kept to a minimum and therefore have criticised Catholics over this.

Personally I feel the same as you, St. Faustina and others who believe devotion to Mary the Mother of God is never "too much".

[/quote]

If anyone would worship Mary that would be a heresy. "For Mary, infinitely inferior to her Son, who is God, does not command him in the same way as an earthly mother would command her child who is beneath her. Since she is completely transformed in God by that grace and glory which transforms all the saints in him, she does not ask or wish to do anything which is contrary to the eternal and unchangeable will of God." (St. Louis de Montfort)

Mary can't do anything or ask anything contrary to the will of God. For she was created only for Him. People tend not to understand when we honor Mary, it is given to God. She can not keep anything for herself. It almost seems unfair, but such is the will of God. Mary does not bring division but union with God. Everything is for God to her for she was created only for Him.

Marian devotion brings about union with Christ. That is why I say it is the most important devotion to have, instead of some treating as if you can put it on a shelf, and come back to it, if and when you please. It should be takin seriously.


#7

[quote="De_Montfort, post:1, topic:286310"]
"Nothing is to much when it comes to honoring the Immaculate Virgin" 1413

"Jesus was the first to honor her as His very Mother and we must imitate Him also in this. We will never, as much as we try, love Her with a love equal to that which Jesus loves her."
(St. Maximilian Kolbe)

So why so much "caution" when speaking of devotion to Mary. It is not to be put on the same level as the saints because of Her complete link to Christ. The Saints say it can never be to much!

[/quote]

The reason for caution is simple.
Not everyone is in the same spiritual class as the saints you mention above.

Not everyone has read their writings or understand their deep spirituality.
Not everyone has been properly catechized in these matters.

It is easy for people who are spiritual infants, or poorly catechized to hear or read things out of context and misunderstand and or misapply them in their own spiritual life and/or in conversation with others.

In my opinion, anyone who comes to Christ, needs to come to Christ first. Get to know Him and The Father. Then, let Them introduce the newcomer to the Holy Mother, her place and her role.

That way confusion and improper "worship" is far less likely AND the person will be prepared to correctly answer the questions of others.

But that is just my opinion....:shrug:

Peace
James

P.S. I Love you Mom. :thumbsup:


#8

There are several threads on this subject for anyone who is interested. Here is one that came up from a quick search: forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=568148


#9

[quote="jwinch2, post:8, topic:286310"]
There are several threads on this subject for anyone who is interested. Here is one that came up from a quick search: forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=568148

[/quote]

I read some of the posts about "taking it to far". What about the wisdom of the Saints, are we saying they took it to far?

"Whoever does not wish to have Mary Immaculate as his Mother will not have Christ as his Brother either; the Father will not send his Son to him; the Son will not descend into his soul; the Holy Spirit will not make him a member of the mystical body of Christ; for all these mysteries of grace take place in Mary full of grace, and in her alone. No other creature is or will ever be immaculate like her, or full of grace, or capable of being so intimately united to the Lord as was the Immaculate Virgin. And since the first-born, the Man-God, was conceived only through the specific consent of the Most Blessed Virgin, the same holds true of all other humans, who must imitate in all things their primary model, Christ."
(St. Maximilian Kolbe)

So is this Holy Saint taking it to far? Pope John Paul II called him an "apostle of a New Marian age"

I think I will take my advice from Holy Saints of the Church, then just someones speculation.


#10

[quote="De_Montfort, post:1, topic:286310"]
"Nothing is to much when it comes to honoring the Immaculate Virgin" 1413

"Jesus was the first to honor her as His very Mother and we must imitate Him also in this. We will never, as much as we try, love Her with a love equal to that which Jesus loves her."
(St. Maximilian Kolbe)

So why so much "caution" when speaking of devotion to Mary. It is not to be put on the same level as the saints because of Her complete link to Christ. The Saints say it can never be to much!

Devotion to Her should be next to Christ!

[/quote]

I notice your screen name, De_Montfort.:) Some of his writing is a bit flowery for me, and I can see where someone disposed to think we secretly worship Mary could find some phrasing which could apparently back this up. I figure it's just because he is French.;)


#11

[quote="jwinch2, post:8, topic:286310"]
There are several threads on this subject for anyone who is interested. Here is one that came up from a quick search: forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=568148

[/quote]

Thank you jwinch. That was the best thread I've seen on the subject.


#12

[quote="maltmom, post:11, topic:286310"]
Thank you jwinch. That was the best thread I've seen on the subject.

[/quote]

You're welcome.

Peace,


#13

*In my opinion, anyone who comes to Christ, needs to come to Christ first. Get to know Him and The Father. Then, let Them introduce the newcomer to the Holy Mother, her place and her role.
That way confusion and improper "worship" is far less likely AND the person will be prepared to correctly answer the questions of others.

*
I came to believe in Christ first as a Protestant. But I have heard of instances where Mary has led some people to the Catholic Church. To be honest, I pray the rosary several times a week, and that is where I feel most comfortable in my relationship with Mary--as intercessor. Most of the prayer is focusing on the life of Jesus as we ask Mary to bring us closer to her Son, or to help us become more like her Son, or to present our petitions to her Son. Of course I can and do present my petitions to Christ directly and sometimes to the Father directly in Jesus's name. But I do think Mary is in a unique position to pray for us. Not only does Jesus honor her requests (don't we all try to honor our mothers' requests?), but I believe she loves us with a mother's love and mothers love their children in a unique way (not a greater way than fathers--just a different way). I can relate to this b/c I am a mother and I know how much I love my son and how much I worry about him and pray for him. I think there are those who focus only on Mary (although I don't personally know any)--those who are always seeking and following the apparitions, etc. We must use discernment and listen to the Church.


#14

[quote="Veronica97, post:13, topic:286310"]
[II think there are those who focus only on Mary (although I don't personally know any)--those who are always seeking and following the apparitions, etc. We must use discernment and listen to the Church.[/SIZE]

[/quote]

I see this complaint often on this forum, that there are those who focus only on Mary and basically forget about her son. I have personally never come across this in any person I have known. I have stated on other threads that I know several people in their 70's and 80's who are life long Catholics who have never strayed from the church and who tell me they were never even tempted to stray from the Church. What is the one common demoninator among them? They all have an intense devotion to Mary. And NONE of them worship Mary or disregard Jesus in any way. They all love our Lord with all their hearts, and their devotion to Mary only strengthens their worship of her Son.

I did the total consecration to Mary last December. Since that time, my devotion and love of our Lord has increased tremendously. If you go to Mary, she will never fail to lead you directly to her Son. That is what she is about. Any devotion and veneration we give to her, she will pass on to her Son and draw you closer to Him. That is what she did when she was on earth, and that is what she has continued to do since her assumption into heaven. She is the Queen of heaven and earth, and she serves her King, her Son, by leading all of her children directly to Him.

We are never safer and never closer to Christ than when we are in the arms of our Blessed Mother.


#15

[quote="katy, post:10, topic:286310"]
I notice your screen name, De_Montfort.:) Some of his writing is a bit flowery for me, and I can see where someone disposed to think we secretly worship Mary could find some phrasing which could apparently back this up. I figure it's just because he is French.;)

[/quote]

You really have to look at all his writing, which can best be summed up in a phrase which he is fond of, "God alone." Much of St. Louis de Montfort's teaching is simply a reminder to adhere to our baptismal promises. He is fond of flowery language, but when you look past it, much of what he writes is quite practical.

**Remember, then, my dear children, my joy, my glory and my crown (Phil 4.1), to have a great love for Jesus and to love him through Mary. Let your true devotion to your loving Mother Mary be manifest everywhere and to everyone, so that you may spread everywhere the fragrance of Jesus and, carrying your cross steadfastly after our good Master, gain the crown and kingdom which is waiting for you. So, do not fail to fulfil your baptismal promises and all that they entail, say your Rosary every day either alone or in public and receive the sacraments at least once a month.* - St. Louis de Montfort, Excerpt from a Letter to the Inhabitants of Montbernage. *

Like most of the saints, we really need to look at all of his writings and the circumstances of his life to understand any of what he writes.

-Tim-


#16

[quote="De_Montfort, post:9, topic:286310"]
I read some of the posts about "taking it to far". What about the wisdom of the Saints, are we saying they took it to far?

"Whoever does not wish to have Mary Immaculate as his Mother will not have Christ as his Brother either; the Father will not send his Son to him; the Son will not descend into his soul; the Holy Spirit will not make him a member of the mystical body of Christ; for all these mysteries of grace take place in Mary full of grace, and in her alone. No other creature is or will ever be immaculate like her, or full of grace, or capable of being so intimately united to the Lord as was the Immaculate Virgin. And since the first-born, the Man-God, was conceived only through the specific consent of the Most Blessed Virgin, the same holds true of all other humans, who must imitate in all things their primary model, Christ."
(St. Maximilian Kolbe)

So is this Holy Saint taking it to far? Pope John Paul II called him an "apostle of a New Marian age"

[/quote]

A beautiful quote.
No this saint is not "taking things too far" since nothing he says in the above quote in any way gives improper honor to our Holy Mother.

But remember the question you ask in the title of this thread..."Devotion to Mary is it **ever* too much"* (emphasis mine).

I once had a person, right here on this website, a several years ago tell me that I was wrong to pray directly to the Father or to Jesus...That I need to pray through Mary...
I'm sure that you agree this person was taking devotion to Mary too far.
Thus - by that one statement from that one individual - demonstrated that - indeed there can be too much devotion to Mary.

I think I will take my advice from Holy Saints of the Church, then just someones speculation.

I think this is wise for the saints would not be Saints if they did not agree with and promote Church teaching.

And of course by doing this you are in a very good place from which to correct people who, like the person I refer to above, DO take Marion devotion too far.

Peace
James


#17

As St Louis de Montfort says, if you say Mary she echos "God"
There is no reason to fear that loving Mary will take away from her Son

Think about it , Mary said yes to give birth to the Son of God, she raised him and always knew that he was the Son of God , therefore , she always had the interests of him as God in mind :)


#18

[quote="JRKH, post:16, topic:286310"]
A beautiful quote.
No this saint is not "taking things too far" since nothing he says in the above quote in any way gives improper honor to our Holy Mother.

But remember the question you ask in the title of this thread..."Devotion to Mary is it **ever** too much" (emphasis mine).

I once had a person, right here on this website, a several years ago tell me that I was wrong to pray directly to the Father or to Jesus...That I need to pray through Mary...
I'm sure that you agree this person was taking devotion to Mary too far.
Thus - by that one statement from that one individual - demonstrated that - indeed there can be too much devotion to Mary.

I think this is wise for the saints would not be Saints if they did not agree with and promote Church teaching.

And of course by doing this you are in a very good place from which to correct people who, like the person I refer to above, DO take Marion devotion too far.

Peace
James

[/quote]

You can go to Jesus directly yes I would never deny that. What this devotion shows is humility. Since Mary is our advocate which we learn from St. Maximilian Kolbe that she shares in the mission of The Holy Spirit her spouse, to proclaim Christ, and to lead all to Him and union with Him. It is just a way of saying because we are sinful and full of desires of the flesh that we don't know whats best because of our weakness, and give it to Mary, since she has the keys to God's heart and knows whats best for his Glory.

St. Louis de Montfort compared it to using a chisel or using a mold. Sculptors have to work hard and can spoil the work in one misblown strick. But a mold doesn't involve much work and doesnt take much time. Mary is the mold of God She molds people into images of her Son. It is a smoother way, a perfect way of union with Christ.

When I first read St Louis de Montfort, yeah it was hard and made me nervous. But I started to know that it was Christ who was leading me to Her. I think part of me being "nervous" was because of the way I was raised as a child. I wasn't taught that Mary was important. But I didn't give up! I kept re-reading books until the Holy Spirit showed me that Christ and only Christ is the center of all Marian devotion. She can only lead to Jesus, and going to Her is only a way of loving Him tenderly.

I think that person was just passionate about Mary. But we all must remember that Christ came only through Her, and His strongest wish is that we come to Him through His blessed Mother. It can be rejected like anything else.


#19

[quote="De_Montfort, post:18, topic:286310"]
You can go to Jesus directly yes I would never deny that. What this devotion shows is humility. Since Mary is our advocate which we learn from St. Maximilian Kolbe that she shares in the mission of The Holy Spirit her spouse, to proclaim Christ, and to lead all to Him and union with Him. It is just a way of saying because we are sinful and full of desires of the flesh that we don't know whats best because of our weakness, and give it to Mary, since she has the keys to God's heart and knows whats best for his Glory.

St. Louis de Montfort compared it to using a chisel or using a mold. Sculptors have to work hard and can spoil the work in one misblown strick. But a mold doesn't involve much work and doesnt take much time. Mary is the mold of God She molds people into images of her Son. It is a smoother way, a perfect way of union with Christ.

When I first read St Louis de Montfort, yeah it was hard and made me nervous. But I started to know that it was Christ who was leading me to Her. I think part of me being "nervous" was because of the way I was raised as a child. I wasn't taught that Mary was important. But I didn't give up! I kept re-reading books until the Holy Spirit showed me that Christ and only Christ is the center of all Marian devotion. She can only lead to Jesus, and going to Her is only a way of loving Him tenderly.

I think that person was just passionate about Mary. But we all must remember that Christ came only through Her, and His strongest wish is that we come to Him through His blessed Mother. It can be rejected like anything else.

[/quote]

AGREED!!! :thumbsup:


#20

[quote="De_Montfort, post:9, topic:286310"]
So is this Holy Saint taking it to far? Pope John Paul II called him an "apostle of a New Marian age"

I think I will take my advice from Holy Saints of the Church, then just someones speculation.

[/quote]

Fair enough.

However, I might suggest that similar accolades have been heaped upon Saints Bonaventure, who is known as the Seraphic Doctor; and Bernard of Clairvaux, who is also a doctor of the Church. Both of them opposed the Immacuate Conception being made doctrine. St. Thomas Aquinas, was at the least uncomfortable with it, though he stated that he would accept the decision of the Church. In addition, a great theologian of the same time Alexander of Hales, who has been called the Doctor Irrefragabilis (Irrefutable Teacher) and Doctor Doctorum (Teacher of Teachers), was also against the Immaculate Conception being made into dogma. Am I now free to ignore the Immacuate Conception because of what some great saints who had fancy titles given to them wrote and said? I think not.

Perhaps it is best to avoid the logical fallacy of an appeal authority by cherry picking quotes of saints you happen to agree with, and study Mary within the entire tradition of the Church going all the way back to the Church Fathers. Perhaps it is wise to note that if you wish to take your Marian devotion to the level of a Saint Kolbe or de Montfort, that you are free to do so within the Tradition of the Church. However, someone else who may not wish to take things to the same level that those two particular saints did, is also free to make that decision.


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