Devotion to Mary


#1

I don’t really truly appreciate and understand it. I see now, as the pope has died, at St. Peters square a litany of prayers to the Virgin Mary, calling her every glorious name in the book. I don’t understand why? Shouldn’t we be talking about Jesus more? It’ just confuses me and appears (at least to me) to be an over emphasis on Mary. Whereas she may truly be all those great things being said about her in this time of prayer, I don’t see how this all fits in.

Second question I have, is why is there a devotion to Mary at all? Why has the pope dedicated his life to Mary? To me, I would think that he would be dedicating his life to Jesus!

I need help in understanding this. I agree with invoking the intercession of our blessed mother, and the value of it…but I think there is a fine line here about what becomes excessive. I would think that the only person you should devote your life to is Jesus, using Mary’s example as the model Christian. Thoughts?


#2

[quote=Catholic Tom]I don’t really truly appreciate and understand it. I see now, as the pope has died, at St. Peters square a litany of prayers to the Virgin Mary, calling her every glorious name in the book. I don’t understand why? Shouldn’t we be talking about Jesus more? It’ just confuses me and appears (at least to me) to be an over emphasis on Mary. Whereas she may truly be all those great things being said about her in this time of prayer, I don’t see how this all fits in.
[/quote]

The titles given to Mary should be seen in relation to Jesus; in other words, indirectly the praise really is to Jesus as He is the Source of all. Mary merely reflects that Source.

Second question I have, is why is there a devotion to Mary at all? Why has the pope dedicated his life to Mary? To me, I would think that he would be dedicating his life to Jesus!

The same answer is given above. As an addition: why shouldn’t there be? Mary is faithful to her Son, to the point that she followed Him to the Cross when most of His Disciples fled. She was brave enough to do that–she who is most closely associated to her Son than any other person ever would be. So in every way she deserves that devotion for her faithfulness to Him. Again, all of these should be taken in reference to Jesus: it is only Jesus, always Jesus. Mary reflects the light of Christ.

I think there is a fine line here about what becomes excessive.

That is true. The Church has never been remiss in reminding the faithful about this. She reminds us to be careful not to overemphasize Mary, and to always keep in mind that Mary should be seen in the light of Christ.

I would think that the only person you should devote your life to is Jesus, using Mary’s example as the model Christian.

That is precisely what the Church does, don’t you think?


#3

I am not disagreeing with that, but shouldn’t it be in addition to the devotion to Christ? I mean, shouldn’t some devotion to Mary accompany devotion to Christ? From what I saw, the majority of the devotion was to Mary, and that puzzles me.

The pope dedicated his life to Mary, gave himself totally to her. I guess the same could be said of St. Maximillan Kolbe. I have a hard time with this. Fr. Larry Richards (not sure if you have heard his CD’s, great Catholic speaker) dedicates his priesthood to Mary…I don’t understand it. Again, I understand and fully accept Catholic teaching on Mary, its this stuff that I see as being misguided. I would think that the pope would dedicate his life to Jesus. Now, he may also have done so, I really don’t know, but what he promotes is Mary in this regard. Does anyone feel confused like I do?


#4

And so are all of St Maximilliam Kolbe’s Militia Immaculata, of whom I am one. I returned to the faith because I researched the Marian teachings of the Catholic Church and found out that all the tripe that we hear from N-Cs is hooey. I have no doubt whatsoever that Our Lady was on my case and interceded with God to send the Holy Spirit to bring this man home.

Consider this Tom: What is one of the clearest statements that Mary ever made about Jesus? At the wedding feast in Cana, what did she tell the servants about Jesus? That is her same message today and always. Marys’s exemplary Christian life as the very first believer is one of the reasons that guys like me are so dedicated to the service of her son. In the Blessed Virgin I see what God can really do in my own frail human life. Does that help any?
Pax vobiscum,


#5

[quote=Catholic Tom]I am not disagreeing with that, but shouldn’t it be in addition to the devotion to Christ?
[/quote]

If it helps any, there is also a litany in devotion to Christ. There are numerous novenas directed to Him. The devotion to Mary is simply in addition to the devotion to Christ. As the Church affirms, the devotion to Mary is beneficial, but not essential.

From what I saw, the majority of the devotion was to Mary, and that puzzles me.

Again, look at it in the perspective of going to Jesus through Mary.

The pope dedicated his life to Mary, gave himself totally to her.

The Holy Father’s devotion is first and foremost to Christ. His devotion to the Blessed Mother is in connection to his devotion to Christ. That should be clear.

I guess the same could be said of St. Maximillan Kolbe. I have a hard time with this. Fr. Larry Richards (not sure if you have heard his CD’s, great Catholic speaker) dedicates his priesthood to Mary…I don’t understand it.

Just like the Holy Father above, all of these should be seen in relation to Christ: their devotion is first and foremost to Him. Devotion to Mary or any other saint is an adjunct to this devotion to Christ. Nothing should take away the clergy from devotion to Christ. That is the most essential; that is why Mass is celebrated daily then–Christ is first and foremost.

I would think that the pope would dedicate his life to Jesus.

He does–everyday he is Pope. His life is totally to Him, as well as to Mary. That again should be the thing seen: his life is totally to Christ with Mary, to make it clear.


#6

[quote=Church Militant]And so are all of St Maximilliam Kolbe’s Militia Immaculata, of whom I am one. I returned to the faith because I researched the Marian teachings of the Catholic Church and found out that all the tripe that we hear from N-Cs is hooey. I have no doubt whatsoever that Our Lady was on my case and interceded with God to send the Holy Spirit to bring this man home.

Consider this Tom: What is one of the clearest statements that Mary ever made about Jesus? At the wedding feast in Cana, what did she tell the servants about Jesus? That is her same message today and always. Marys’s exemplary Christian life as the very first believer is one of the reasons that guys like me are so dedicated to the service of her son. In the Blessed Virgin I see what God can really do in my own frail human life. Does that help any?
Pax vobiscum,
[/quote]

It does help, thanks. I guess it boils down to me being quite confused and having some (minor albeit) difficulty seeing the proper balance in Marian devotion. When I hear that the Pope totally gave himself to the Virgin Mary, I don’t see the same being said of Jesus, and that bothers me, and confuses me. I guess though, the proper light to view this devotion is that the Pope lived his life imitating Christ, so I would hardly say that he disregarded Christ, again, i think its the whole balance thing, and how much is too much?


#7

Speaking of St Maximilian Kolbe he said:

Do not be afraid to love the Immaculate too much for you could never love her as much as Jesus did.

That’s all we need to know.


#8

[quote=tuopaolo]Speaking of St Maximilian Kolbe he said:

Do not be afraid to love the Immaculate too much for you could never love her as much as Jesus did.

That’s all we need to know.
[/quote]

wow, thats a powerful quote, thanks…WOW


#9

There should be a picture on the internet of when JP2 put gold crowns on a picture of Mary HOLDING Jesus and on both of their heads was a crown. I wish I could find it and paste it, because it really opens your eyes to the deep relationship the mother has to her Son.
(If anyone knows where it is could you post the picture?)


#10

She leads us to Jesus in so many ways. Even our reaction “shouldn’t it be Jesus we are giving our attention to” is typical Mary at work. She is amazing, you can pray to her all you like but she will always cast the spotlight on Jesus.


#11

[quote=Catholic Tom]It does help, thanks. I guess it boils down to me being quite confused and having some (minor albeit) difficulty seeing the proper balance in Marian devotion. When I hear that the Pope totally gave himself to the Virgin Mary, I don’t see the same being said of Jesus, and that bothers me, and confuses me. I guess though, the proper light to view this devotion is that the Pope lived his life imitating Christ, so I would hardly say that he disregarded Christ, again, i think its the whole balance thing, and how much is too much?
[/quote]

Hi Catholic Tom,
Can you have too much Christ ?
If you had 100% Christ , how wrong would you be?
Walk in love
edwinG


#12

[quote=tuopaolo]Speaking of St Maximilian Kolbe he said:

Do not be afraid to love the Immaculate too much for you could never love her as much as Jesus did.

That’s all we need to know.
[/quote]

Hi tuopaolo,
Christ commanded “Love one another.” So love Mary, love Jane, love Bill, love Fred etc etc. Do you really think when Jesus said to love one another He meant love one person more than another person. I Fred love 5 % , Bill 31.5 % Jane 98% and Mary100%.
Or do you think Christ wants us to love everyone the same.
Do you think quantifying our love calls for us to make judgments?
walk in love
edwinG


#13

[quote=Lost&Found]She leads us to Jesus in so many ways. Even our reaction “shouldn’t it be Jesus we are giving our attention to” is typical Mary at work. She is amazing, you can pray to her all you like but she will always cast the spotlight on Jesus.
[/quote]

Hi lost and found,
Where do you see the Holy Spirit, whose work is to lead us to Jesus? As He lives in us what do you think He is doing?
Walk in love
edwinG


#14

[quote=edwinG]Hi Catholic Tom,
Can you have too much Christ ?
If you had 100% Christ , how wrong would you be?
Walk in love
edwinG
[/quote]

Hi Edwin,

I think there is a profound difference in that Christ is Divine and I’m really talking about how much is too much to his created being, albeit a very important one. I wouldn’t be comparing the 2 and the devotion given to both, as I think there should be a difference given one is divine and the other is not.

I guess what it comes down to, is all the time spent praising Mary in St. Peter’s square, to me, seemed excessive. Why was that time not spent praising Jesus? His virtues as the Divine one, his work on the Cross, etc. I understand how all Mary’s virtues reflect God’s glory, but why not focus on God MORE than the focus on Mary. Not to completely remove Mary, I’m not suggesting that, but here is the problem for me I think:

It seems as though the devotion is disproportionately heavier to Mary, which to me, doesn’t seem right. These are just my thoughts, I am so proud to have the Catholic faith and I’m learning so much about the faith I had taken for granted. I’m just questioning some things that I dont understand, this is really one of the only things that really make me wonder, outloud at the moment, lol.


#15

[quote=Catholic Tom]Second question I have, is why is there a devotion to Mary at all?
[/quote]

Mary is our spiritual mother. I think we should be devoted to our mother. She has so deeply participated in the work of Christ, and continues to interceed now in heaven for us. She is devoted to us (she is devoted to our salvation because she is devoted to the work of her Son, and he cares about our salvation).

Also, I think honor is due her as the Mother of God, or Theotokos. No doubt Christ honors his mother as his mother, for he was an obedient Jew. And we are the adopted sons of God, so we are Jesus’s brothers, so I think also we should honor his mother on account of being his brothers.

We should never honor her beyond what honor can be given a created person.


#16

[quote=edwinG]Hi lost and found,
Where do you see the Holy Spirit, whose work is to lead us to Jesus? As He lives in us what do you think He is doing?
Walk in love
edwinG
[/quote]

Yes the Holy Spirit Loves Mary too, Edwin;) I think you become paranoid about Mary and Catholic Tom is falling into that because you have reduced God almighty into a meany who uses women and throws them away.God is not like that some humans sadly are.God Bless


#17

[quote=edwinG] I Fred love 5 % , Bill 31.5 % Jane 98% and Mary100%.
Or do you think Christ wants us to love everyone the same.

[/quote]

Do you think Jesus loved everyone the same in all senses?


#18

Catholic Tom,

Do you come from a Protestant background? If so, this is such a hard concept to grasp (and, occasionally, I have issues with it as well) BECAUSE it is directly taught against in Protestant circles. We have been (and, forgive me if I am in error by this assumption) so conditioned & indoctrinated AGAINST this that the truth is that much more obscure. There is nothing wrong with a devotion to the Virgin. I shall pray that this becomes clear to you. I hope this helps you catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0204fea3.asp It’s been done throughout the ages. Fairly recently, it has been dismissed by some. PRAY to Jesus about it. Ask Him what’s the deal with it. He’ll guide you in the right direction.


#19

Catholic Tom,

My background is not Protestant at all, but I do sympathize with your feelings on the subject.

I don’t think, however, that quantity of devotion is a good sign of excessiveness. It’s the quality of the devotion.

A person devoted to the example and person of Mary should naturally be thinking of Jesus in the context of his mother. That is to say, Mary as a disciple of Jesus leads all to Jesus. (The rosary is not a division of Mary to exclusion of Jesus by any means!)

If I were to say the devotion was excessive, it would only be because the person was not allowing Mary to lead them to Jesus. I do think this is possible, but pretty difficult!

In my experience, people tend to turn toward Mary in the expectation that this gentle, feminine figure, is sort of an easy way to get Jesus’ ear. They want Mary around when they talk to Jesus.
The approach is rather child like. (Lots of children will go to mom first, then to dad for example).
There is nothing wrong with that.

For my age, I have spent > 30% of my life with my mother. The other people I know get much less total time (<6%). (My youngest son is only 2. Not much time there).

That is just part of growing up.

So, I really don’t think statistics are a really good way of looking at this either. ( Besides, how does one love 5%? is that quantity or quality or what? Love is what you will do for someone; If you will do anything it is 100% I think anyone who truly loves Mary 100% will also love Jesus 100% – there is no division because Mary wants her son’s will fulfilled. )

Jesus gave Mary to the disciple he loved. That is any true disciple . Jesus did that knowing our human nature.

Praised be Jesus Christ, now and for all eternity.
Alleluia! ( halleluia!, Hallel Yahweh!).

I’m praying a chaplet of divine mercy tonight for PJPII and the new pope.
:cool:


#20

[quote=Pug]Do you think Jesus loved everyone the same in all senses?
[/quote]

Hi Pug,
Yes he did, fully. He wept over Jerusalem, the city which would kill Him. Luke 19;41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it.
42 saying" If you had known,even you,expecially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes" etc etc.

It all boils down to love the people and hate the sin. Everyone is born to sin. Everyone. No one is saved until they are born again. Now we do not know who will be born again so why should we offend some one who one day could very well be a brother in Christ. In wisdom, and obedience to Christ ,love everyone and hate the sin. Think of all people as future Christians, controlled by an evil spirit and in love we need to free them from the sin so they too may be saved and love as we do. If we as Christians do any act which is against love it makes it so much harder for people to belief in Christ and His love. Ie do some of the acts of our Church which dont edify Christ. Like porn and child molestation are dramatic public blunders but on an individual level it is standing up in a bus, holding the door for someone to walk through etc. Edify Chirst through your behaviour. Stay away from evil people and leave them to others. Look at Paul. A murder of Christians. What if you had set fire to his chariot. That would have only inflamed him more and possibly hardened his heart and you would have felt pretty stupid later on or maybe guilty because your act had prevented him from believing.
Love all.
walk in love
edwinG


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