I do not consider these earthly bodies as being completely evil, but they do often act as torture chambers which would be inconstant with Paradise. I therefore contend that their bodies in Paradise must have been glorified bodies, incapable of pain and suffering.
I do not really expect a definitive answer because this seems to be a gray area that no mortal man can answer for certain, but it is a thoughtful question, I think, and cast doubts that these earthly bodies are purely good.
Actually, it’s not that gray of an area. The original state of the bodies of Adam and Eve weren’t glorified, they were in a state of NATURAL bliss, not supernatural. And bodies were never considered evil. They have a tendency to evil, because of original sin, but in and of themselves are not evil, they’re created by God, therefor cannot be evil.
The fact that they were in a state of natural bliss means that there was no suffering, pain, nor death. By Christ we were elevated at a much higher level of bliss, the supernatural bliss. One in sanctifying grace is in a much higher state than that of Adam and Eve. And with the glorious resurrection we will be higher then angels. Adam and Eve were lower than angels, even before the Fall.
Going by common sense, Adam and Eve had earthly bodies in the Garden of Eden which is not the same as the eternal paradise of heaven, that is, Adam and Eve did not live in the presence of the Beatific Vision.
“Glorified bodies” is used when speaking about our resurrection from the dead. Instead of resurrected bodies, Adam and Eve had a normal material body which was endowed with the extra gift of immortality. This gift, freely bestowed by God, was contingent on their remaining in the divine intimacy. (Information source. CCC, 374-379)
First, this isn’t Paradise so let the shock of whatever you consider “torture” in your body to wear off. Life is lifey.
Second, our bodies aren’t evil at all - they’re our bodies. It I our will that makes them do things you may consider evil, but the majority of us simply say sinful, not evil. Speak for yourself.
Third, switching from us to Adam and Eve is subtly, but again speak for yourself. Although they are our first parents, we aren’t them and to compare us to them, well it is unfair of you and can confuse others if accepted as truth.
Fourth, to get a glorified body one must die and be resurrected body and soul. Adam and Eve had no such thing happen to them in Eden (notice it is Eden and not Paradise BTW).
Fifth it wasn’t until sin entered into their lives that they experienced pain and sorrow and death. So, you’re partly correct in saying they didn’t have pain and suffering, but they were very capable of having it and it was by God’s Grace that they didn’t. They fell from grace and so lost that Providential sustenance. Get it?
Six, the Church has always know this so how is it you being a Church member are missing the mark on this? The Church’s understand and promulgation of the accounts of man’s creation and all that occurred in Eden and it’s results is definitive. Why do you expect that has escaped our understanding all of a sudden?
Seven, “no mortal man?” how about this mortal woman? Me? Got a problem with me believing all that the Holy Catholic Church believes and teaches about the genesis of mankind? How about what it means to have a glorified body? Hmmmmmm?
Eight, there are heresies and errors that provide for the doubts you’d like to sow among us regarding those things you’ve reflected upon, but not with me. Is that how you are celebrating your Sunday by sowing the seeds of doubt and twisted belief? Shame. have you no shame sir?
Nine, if you are really in doubt about “I think, and cast doubts that these earthly bodies are purely good.” how can you honestly see Mary, the Mother of God as pure? You’ve just started to undo that which we believe regarding her. I find your suggestions insulting, coming from a fellow Catholic. But you are free to do as you please. God doesn’t force Himself on anyone.
There are many things that we can *know *from the Bible text in Genesis. Adam and Eve did come from the earth, Adam was made from the earth, but God blew a spiritual supernatural life into him and into Eve.
(we can understand this more by picturing what we can make out of clay, for example, imagine the clay sculpture of a man, yet he is not animated and has no life force, so God indeed put supernatural life and abilities into Adam, comparing him to a clay sculpture, which describes what God would have had,
just in forming Adam from the earth.)
Also, we know that God ‘crowned’ Adam and Eve with the Glory of God. This was in such a form that the two of them, inside this Glory, were not naked, they were ‘covered’ by it.
Some have scholared to discover from other places in the Scripture that this was a
‘garment of light’, that covered them, individually.
We can also know that Adam possessed a unique brain power. He named every living thing. (organization to give each an individual name, differentiate, and remember what was what. We do not know that Adam could write anything down, so he must have remembered all of the individual names.)Today, only computers could accomplish this.
Because science has told us that we have much more brain power than any of us actually uses, ie. we use less than 20 % of our brain’s ability,…it is reasonable to assume that ‘Before the fall’, A&Eve may have had access to the use of all of their brain power.
Other things that science has revealed to us about the pre fall situation come from the time of the great flood of Noah. Apparently some science believes that the pounds per square inch of air pressure on the earth today, is different from what it was before the flood of Noah. Changes occurred, they believe, even in the tilt of the earth’s axis,…
that effected life on earth in many ways.
There is a study here to be looked into that shows life on earth pre fall even may have been equivalent to what occurs inside a bariatric chamber now. This may account
for how Adam and Eve’s bodies could have been without sicknesses and injuries to their bodies could have healed much more expediently than in our current atmospheric pressure system.
These studies have been looked into by real science, not my imagination, and have many
reasons and proofs in their findings.
From this info. they were able to deduce that pre fall Adam and Eve may have experienced
much higher levels of physical prowess in running, jumping, etc. than we do today,…
ie they may have been able to run ‘with fast moving animals, and keep pace’., according to differences in the way their lungs would process air, etc. in a diff. atmospheric pressure.
We also know that they lived llllooooooonnnng lives, in the past, Adam was 900 plus years old, which compared to today, was extraordinary. So were the lives of people after him, hundreds of years in length. Although they lost in the fall, they still maintained some things, perhaps it was just the idea that no one told them they could only live to 70 years or 80 years, (which is from the lament of Moses in scripture, about people who died young in the wilderness because they Refused to go into the promised land)
There is a LOT more than what I have written here.
So summing up what I have written here, Adam and Eve seemed to be able to use all of their brain power, …they had super brains,…they seemed to have been able to ‘run with the fastest of the animals and keep pace’, because of lung capability oweing to the diff. in atmospheric pressure,…(there is science behind this so don’t criticize) and
they were ‘crowned with the Glory of God’ in a way that it seemed to them they had clothes
on, their naked bodies were ‘covered with it’, because when it was removed, they were immediately aware that they were then naked. This clothing was thought to be ‘garments of light’ deduced from other places in scripture where the Glory of the Lord is described.
They also have the ability to live long, hundreds of years,…because even after the fall,
they lived hundreds of years, and we know at the fall, ‘death’ first came into being as part of the fall and removal of the Blessing and Glory of God.
From the science of the ‘bariatric type of atmosphere’ we also know that injuries to their bodies would have healed in acceleration, maybe immediately after they happened.
Perhaps under the glory injuries never happened.
The atmospheric changes are attributed to what occurred on the earth in the pre-rain situation. Recall, in the text, NO RAIN HAD PREVIOUSLY OCCURED. Adam and Eve were watered only by dew.
Science speculates that the earth was in a kind of terrarium form as compared to now, where rain never fell, but the earth was watered only by dew, which is what the bible says, no rain before the flood.
Read the text, you will discover these things are written there.
:) there is much more even than this…
see my picture below, me jumping for joy, perhaps when Eve jumped, she may have cleared a small tree or two,…oweing to differences in conditions that she may have had compared to what we now have,…(hence the fascination we now have with trampolines,…etc) smile
P.S. did anyone see the movie series about the teen vampires popular a couple years ago.
The twilight series?
One thing I loved about the movie was the portrayal of Edward (the vampire’s) sparkling body, that glittered in the sun. His attributes were that he was immortal, his body shone and glittered with almost blinding light in the sun.
When I saw that I immediately thought of Adam and Eve pre fall. (also Edward drank blood, and I immediately thought of Catholic communion) (this is not meant as offense, but a plus, in an interesting way) (I believe God was speaking to me through this movie)
Edward was immortal, he sparkled and shone in the sun (glorified body?) he had supernatural speed and couldn’t be harmed or hurt physically. His eyesight was enhanced, - he could see in the dark and also had long range vision, could see miles away.
Get it? see the resemblance to Adam and Eve pre fall?
The finishing touch was the fact that he was a ‘blood drinker’, image from the communion
table, the body and blood of Christ. Deeply subliminal but not without being packed with meaning.
He couldn’t be immortal without drinking the blood. See it?
that “the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground” (emphasis added).**
I didn’t see the recent Noah yet,…luminous bodies can you explain what it looked like?
describe in detail, is there a video clip of this that I can catch a peek of it?
no, I wasn’t referring to the vampire aspect being something I liked, but the ‘blood drinking’ aspect I believe was a subliminal symbol in one way of communion,…
drinking ‘blood’ is the way (back) if you will to immortality on the earth, without drinking blood, there can be no immortality.
Nope. The Bible says they were naked without shame. That means naked. No fig leaves or skins or as you’d like to imagine, a “garment of light.” Hollywood’s version is just that - Hollywood’s version. Naked means naked, head to toe, the birthday suit we all wear when we get in the tubby. No shame means they had no knowledge that their bare butts might be offensive. Nakedness is seen as a shame as in the Biblical shame of Egypt - the bare buttocks of slaves. Nice try though. Adam and Even were buck naked in the Garden of Eden until God killed some animals for them out of pity after their fall and made them garments out of skins so they could at least have some rudimentary knowledge of how to make clothes for themselves instead of the silly leaves they tried to cover themselves with. In fact I like to note that the first death that occurred after the fall was that of an animal whose skin was sacrificed by God for the two of them. Almost a typology. Hmm…food for thought there.
Trust the Church with your religious education and use Hollywood for your entertainment, instead of the other way around.
For those of you who contend that Adam and Eve had earthly bodies, how would you explain the fact that our human bodies have countless pain sensors and that some are bound to have triggered during their time in Paradise? If you contend that their bodies did not have such pain sensors, then you must also accept the fact that their bodies were not like our human bodies.
While not a dogmatic statement, the Church has approved catechisms (such as the St. Joseph series produced by the Catholic Book Publishing Company in the 1960s) which teach that if Adam and Eve had never sinned they would eventually have experienced the Beatific Vision in glorified bodies. Though their sinning delayed this purpose, it will still happen through Christ who will make this possible for our first parents on Judgment Day.
As for experiencing pain, apparently Adam and Eve were familiar with it because Genesis 3:16-19, God mentions that he will increase the toil and pain associated with childbirth and cultivating the soil for food due to their sin, not introduce it.
Perhaps you can argue with the above post that I linked. I believe that Adam and Eve experienced no pain, at least that’s what I always thought, but I honestly cannot imagine how it could have been if they had earthly bodies. You provide plenty of reading material, but nowhere have I read anything that truly solves the apparent riddle.