Did God create the world as vegetarian?


#1

Genises says that all living things ate fruits and plants.

Also plants have no blood.


#2

It does say that, but there's a range of considerations here.

Are we presuming that everything in the Creation accounts must be taken literally, as if from a history book? Catholics aren't held to that point of view.

Then again, from a biological perspective, this sort of thought leads us to some problems: as omnivores, humans could've survived on a meatless diet. What about carnivores, though, that cannot survive on such a diet? An attempt to believe in a literal world-wide vegetarianism forces one to believe that God changed the nature of animals from herbivore to carnivore as a result of the Fall. That just doesn't make sense.

Finally, if the point of folks making this observation is "this is how the world was created, so this is how we should live now", I would note that, although that might be how things were initially, that's not how they are now, so going 'back' to vegetarianism (while still in our fallen world) would be out of sync, not in sync, with the existing natural world. ;)


#3

Wait…where does it say that? I know it says “for by sin, death entered the world”, and some people take that to mean that nothing physically died until the fall. (though I always understood it to mean spiritual death, not physical)


#4

[quote="Gorgias, post:2, topic:323072"]
It does say that, but there's a range of considerations here.

Are we presuming that everything in the Creation accounts must be taken literally, as if from a history book? Catholics aren't held to that point of view.

Then again, from a biological perspective, this sort of thought leads us to some problems: as omnivores, humans could've survived on a meatless diet. What about carnivores, though, that cannot survive on such a diet? An attempt to believe in a literal world-wide vegetarianism forces one to believe that God changed the nature of animals from herbivore to carnivore as a result of the Fall. That just doesn't make sense.

Finally, if the point of folks making this observation is "this is how the world was created, so this is how we should live now", I would note that, although that might be how things were initially, that's not how they are now, so going 'back' to vegetarianism (while still in our fallen world) would be out of sync, not in sync, with the existing natural world. ;)

[/quote]

A few groups do use this as why they are vegetarian or believe that God meant humans to be vegetarian. Seven Day Adventists believe this. I think a few fringe Protestant groups as well. I saw a special on some pastor that claims this, I wish I remember his name and promotes a Genesis diet of raw fruit and vegetables for health. There is vegetarianism in a number of Catholic religious orders, not just based on this but giving up meat as a sacrifice, identify with the poor, etc. I don't think the Catholic Church as any official views of this at all but for some who may feel called to becoming vegetarians this is an interesting basis.


#5

I find it absurd that God would call a world with disease and animals eating each other “good” so I do think the current order is not the original design.


#6

i wonder why God gave us so many different types of teeth.

we have teeth that do the same as all meat eating animals…

i suppose its down to preference rather than down to being created a veggie.


#7

"And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them."
Luke 24: 41-43

Jesus ate fish, so if the Incarnation eats fish on numerous occasions (notwithstanding he fed fish to the multitudes), I do not think that God intended to create the world as vegetarian.


#8

[quote="MalaysianDan, post:7, topic:323072"]
"And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them."
Luke 24: 41-43

Jesus ate fish, so if the Incarnation eats fish on numerous occasions (notwithstanding he fed fish to the multitudes), I do not think that God intended to create the world as vegetarian.

[/quote]

Not to mention that God explicitly gives animals as food after the flood: "Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." (Gen 9:3)


#9

[quote="InJesusItrust, post:1, topic:323072"]
Genises says that all living things ate fruits and plants

[/quote]

Genesis also says that God gave man dominion over the animals - thus, we are permitted to kill an animal in order to eat its meat.


#10

the Jewish people originally were commanded not to eat meat. I also think it is just better for you,


#11

[quote="InJesusItrust, post:5, topic:323072"]
I find it absurd that God would call a world with disease and animals eating each other "good" so I do think the current order is not the original design.

[/quote]

On one hand, this asks the question of whether physical death was part of God's 'original plan'. If not, then we would presume that neither was reproduction -- after all, if there was reproduction without death, then overpopulation results.

So, we have to ask a tough question: would any of us have been born, if there wasn't original sin?

For the sake of argument, let's presume that the answer to all of these is 'yes': yes, we were planned, yes, reproduction and physical death were planned. If this is the case, then what do we do to maintain balance in nature, and what do we do with all the carcasses of dead animals? Something has to happen to them, or else, again, disease takes over.

Therefore, it seems reasonable that consumption of animal flesh by some other animal (even if it's the bugs that break down carcasses) is 'part of the original plan'. So, it's difficult to say that carnivore animals are part of God's plan. You'll have to account for this, if you want to convince me that it isn't.

Moreover, there's the argument from biology: some animals are purely carnivores. Are you suggesting that God only created carnivores after the flood? Or that God 'converted' herbivores to carnivores after the flood? Please let me know how you account for their presence... ;)


#12

[quote="MalaysianDan, post:7, topic:323072"]
"And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them."
Luke 24: 41-43

Jesus ate fish, so if the Incarnation eats fish on numerous occasions (notwithstanding he fed fish to the multitudes), I do not think that God intended to create the world as vegetarian.

[/quote]

As an Observant Jew he would have eaten Lamb at least every Passover.


#13

They were?


#14

No where in scriptures is found this.

Adam and Eve were not Jewish either :smiley:


#15

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