Did God the Son need God the father to exist?


1.For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.(John5:26)

2.God the father Begotten God the son.

Does it mean God the son need God the father to exist?

Way above my pay grade. The Trinity remains a mystery to me. If I spend all my life studying it I would be no wiser. Intellectual knowledge sometimes brings us to our Faith. Sometimes it brings schism and a pride that takes us away from our Faith. We must discern in our own lives where its value lies.

Interesting question. We’ll never truly understand the Trinity until we enter the eternal realm. We do know by faith that all three Persons in the Trinity are God in and of themselves, yet there is only One God, not three. And yet the Three Persons are distinct - it’s not just three ways the One God can appear. God the Father begets God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. Yet as all Three are eternal, they have all been around for all eternity. The Father is no older than the Son and neither is older than the Holy Spirit. All three “have been forever, are forever, and will be forever”. And the Son and the Holy Spirit were not created by the Father, either.

But, wrapping this around oneself just makes it more confusing for our imperfect intelligences to understand - only when our knowledge is made perfect in eternity will we understand. We are called to have faith in the Trinity - not to understand the Trinity.

Here is an old thread which discusses the word Begotten.


I am not sure if it will help.

The Son is the same God as the Father. Although God does not need to be begotten to exist, God wants to be begotten in his existence.

No, the opposite.

In the Beginning was the Word,
And the Word was with God,
And the word was God.

We experience Jesus as the spoken Word of God. But, before a word is spoken, it is Thought.
You cannot separate a man from his thoughts. Even more so, neither can you separate the Thought of God from God Himself.
And the thought of God is the greatest of all possible thoughts - the notion of God Himself!

My understanding of “In the Beginning…” is,

Since he is the word of God, he is God.

^ this

A book that would be helpful to you in coming to a better understanding (to the limits our human minds can grasp) of the Holy Trinity and the Divine Persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) is Frank Sheed’s Theology for Beginners.

Yes, but it works both ways. The Father and Son (and Spirit) are co-eternal. That means that the Father (and Spirit) could exist apart from the Son.

I’m not sure if are you speaking of the distinction of Persons of the Trinity.
Each distinct Person, each "I’ of the Trinity, has whole and entire the Divine Nature; that Divine Nature is not distinct among the Persons, thus the Divine Nature cannot be divided. The “existence” of one Divine Person cannot be separated from the Others as to their Divine Nature, but each Person is distinct from the Others. If each Divine Person had a separate Divine Nature, then we would be worshipping three gods, not to the One God in Three Persons.

Egad. Make that:
The Father and Son (and Spirit) are co-eternal. That means that the Father (and Spirit) could NOT exist apart from the Son.

What a difference a small word makes. Sorry for any confusion as to whether I have completely abandoned any sense of logic and theology.

That’s a pity, David. I was looking forward to a good old fashioned heretic burning! :smiley:


Been there; done that. :slight_smile:

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