Did I swim the Tiber for this?


#1

I was soooo excited when I finally decided to commit to the Church. It’s been 3 years of study and prayer, leaving the Baptist Church. I meet with the director of Religious Ed at a local Parish. A very nice older lady, … and then I wished I hadn’t went.

We don’t genuflect anymore. ever.
We receive Eucharist in the hand. People feed themselves, you know!
I wish we had women Priests.
You like Scott Hahn? Why? He isn’t good to listen too.
I wish the members of this Church would get with the times. It’s the twenty first century.
Never Kiss a Bishops ring. If you bend over he will think you are falling.

All this and more things that I had learned were part of the faith… All Orthodox and normal, and then I hear this??? I didn’t say a word. Afterall, I’m not even officially Catholic. It is disheartening to say the least. The Catholicism I love is orthodox Catholicism, not cafeteria style. She went on and on about her disgust for people in the parish who were doing tings that Catholics SHOULD do. I meet with the Priest later this week for personal instruction. I cannot attend regular RCIA because of my work schedule. I hope he feels differently than her.


#2

I’m sorry to hear about your experiences with this person. Unfortunately, she and so many other Catholics are very misguided in what the Church teaches and practices. Please let us know if your meeting with the priest goes better than this.

I’ll be praying for your journey home and for the person you met with. God Bless!


#3

I, too, am sorry for your experience, but I can’t help but think God put this woman in your path for a purpose. Either to strengthen your faith-- or hers, I’m not sure. It sounds like in addition to some rather basic catechisis, this woman needs a good shot of humility to boot. Do not discourage. It is possible the meeting with the priest will not go any better (though I pray that is not the case). I would not be silent to him, however. You have some genuine concerns here. My concern is that if the priest has this woman for his religious director, then he may not be much better. Is there another parish nearby? Perhaps they have a different RCIA schedule where you could attend? Many priests insist on an RCIA class before joining the Church. This is a really important step, though I have to say, you seem to be a lot more educated than the lady doing the teaching!

Catechisis really took a nosedive, I believe, for several years. There is no excuse for it, in my opinion. However, I believe that the Holy Spirit has been very busy renewing the Church (despite all that it’s members do to scandalize it). I believe that religious education is improving, on the whole, but there is a long ways to go.

I know this is probably the furthest thing from your mind right now, but one reason you may be going through this is that God may be leading you to get involved with RCIA once you join the Church. The Church needs solidly orthodox 100% loyal-to-the-magesterium teachers. Having been faced with this “cafeteria” style religious director, perhaps you will, with the help of the Holy Spirit, be able to give fresh and fully Catholic insight into the program at this parish. Just a random thought…:slight_smile:


#4

LOL!! I’m sorry, I’m not laughing at you, I promise. I laugh because you clearly must be attending RCIA at the same parish I did.

Seriously though, I had the exact same experience. I was all fired up, left the Southern Baptist church, had been praying, studying, etc. and then… :eek:

I had a wonderful run in, or maybe we’ll call it a ‘near miss’ with the Dir. Rel. Inst. (happened to be a nun) teaching the RCIA classes. Suffice it to say, we circled the ring a few times sizing each other up, and no punches were thrown. I stood my ground, always respectfully (I found calm ‘matter-of-fact’ tones to work best, as though the issue wasn’t really debatable) e.g. "Well, the good thing about us being Catholics is that we don’t make up our own rules. I’m sure glad we have the magisterium who has made this or that so clear, isn’t it great that God left us with authoritative apostles?! :slight_smile: "

At the end, believe it or not, there were some things where she came around (posture when receiving communion), and I think she only did that because I gave her pause. I never exploded, so she had to consider there was an internal transformation in me as a Catholic Christian, and I suppose she must have wondered if I had a point at times, or that my desire to kneel or whatever the issue was, was reflective of an authentic belief. If others can see love of God in you, it can be pretty hard for them to deny that, and thus, hard to indict your different (sometimes quite) practice of The Faith.

Just my .02

I’ll pray for you :slight_smile:


#5

Yeah… you did swim the Tiber for this my friend. :slight_smile:

Did you think that there wasn’t going to be spiritual warfare? You expected it as a Baptist…how much more so as a Catholic, okay?

You are there for a reason, and you just got the wake up call. :thumbsup:

I meet with the director of Religious Ed at a local Parish. A very nice older lady, … and then I wished I hadn’t went.

Yeah… been there a time or two myself. I love the colors they turn when you stick to your guns. :wink:

We don’t genuflect anymore. ever.

:shrug: We musta missed that memo from Rome. I KNOW I did. Do it anyway, and watch how fast the practice takes off all over the parish, especially if you face the Blessed Sacrament every time like I do.

We receive Eucharist in the hand. People feed themselves, you know!

This is no problem actually, since the early church did and one saint told everyone to make a throne out of their hands for the Lord Our King of Kings! Bow or genuflect before you receive and let 'em deal with it.:slight_smile:

I wish we had women Priests.

Yeah… and if wishes were horses then beggars would ride. Don’t sweat it…it ain’t gonna happen.

You like Scott Hahn? Why? He isn’t good to listen too.

I’m sure Dr. Hahn stays awake at night fretting over granny’s opinion. (NOT!) I think you just figured out who really isn’t good to listen to, right?

I wish the members of this Church would get with the times. It’s the twenty first century.

I hate it for her. May the Lord be merciful to her before He takes her.

Never Kiss a Bishops ring. If you bend over he will think you are falling.

Do it anyway. Set the example. And never fail to pray diligently for the bishop and all our priests.

All this and more things that I had learned were part of the faith… All Orthodox and normal, and then I hear this???

Matthew 10:36 and a man’s foes will be those of his own household. And you just met her. :shrug:

I didn’t say a word. Afterall, I’m not even officially Catholic.

Hot news flash buddy. If you get dead tomorrow they will bury you as a Catholic, and at this point, you’re already a more faithful Catholic than she is.:thumbsup:

It is disheartening to say the least. The Catholicism I love is orthodox Catholicism, not cafeteria style. She went on and on about her disgust for people in the parish who were doing tings that Catholics SHOULD do. I meet with the Priest later this week for personal instruction. I cannot attend regular RCIA because of my work schedule. I hope he feels differently than her.

I agree 100% and I’ll wager he’s way better than she is. Don’t sweat her, just start in doing exactly what you know you’re supposed to do. Many saints have had to do something similar and it is my opinion that this is precisely why Our Lord has you entering the church in that parish.

Wanna really mess up her day? Begin praying the Divine Mercy Chaplet novena for her asap. I did that and the anti-Catholic guy I was praying for was ready to convert by the time I finished it. the Holy Spirit is just like a K-Mart radio…He don’t play. :smiley:
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.


#6

I’ll bet when you were in the process of praying… discerning…and deciding whether or not to swim the tiber it must have seemed like the vast majority of the attacks were coming from outside of the Church. The attacks on our Blessed Mother, the Eucharist etc… The attacks from within are far more insidious, and dangerous.

The spiritual warfare is real! Satan is working without rest from within, and outside of the Church to destroy it. Trust that when Jesus said, “The gates of hell won’t prevail against it!” He meant it, because the gates of hell are actively doing everything in it’s power to destroy it. Personally I take this as a very good sign, because if the Church wasn’t being attacked from every direction then I would really worry that we had lost our way.

Be at peace, and know that God is allowing you to experience this so you can be a true defender of the faith.

As a cradle Catholic I am absolutely thrilled with the breath of fresh air the Spirit is blowing into the Church from the other side of the Tiber. Come on in and set it on fire.

God bless you on your journey, and welcome!


#7

How Awful to have this experience when just entering the Church. This is the sort of thing many Catholics are getting so tired of. The Catholic Church should be united Church under the authority of the the Holy Father and the magesterium, but so many seem to think they can just thumb their nose.

Your situation reminds me of an immigrant who is studying for citizationship. He will generally know more than a person born and raised here. It is often the same with the Church. Those born and raised Catholic often don’t really know their faith very well. Pray for her and do as others advise. Be devout and relish your faith.

Hope your meeting with your priest goes better.
Keep in touch.

James


#8

I feel for you completely! I’ve met plenty of Catholics in my life who are JUST like that. I remember actually commenting to a friend shortly before I converted, “I like the Catholic Church. I just don’t like Catholics.” (I know, I know, I’m working on that. :rolleyes: )

Definitely pray for this woman. If the meeting with the priest goes about the same way, perhaps there is a more orthodox parish nearby that you can attend. (Look for one that observes the mass properly, not always a good indicator, but not a bad one.) And if you do go through at this church, take heart. Quite a few people on this forum had terrible experiences going through RCIA. Perhaps there should be a thread where people share horror stories on RCIA. But I wouldn’t want to start that thread, since I think it would be counter-productive. But if you stay at the Church, make sure you genuflect as much as you can, and talk to her and everyone else at the parish about how much you love Scott Hahn. :wink:


#9

It looks like you are getting another Catechism lesson - our Church is made up of sinners! Every single person in our church sins and is imperfect. Do not expect otherwise. Jesus of course said that the gates of Hell would not prevail against her, and that he would be with the church till the end of time, so we have that going for us!

The key part of your spiritual growth, and growth in faith, is what do you do given the realities of the human condition you have just experienced. Is this another form of “provide comfort and aid to the disadvantaged”?


#10

And that’s the good news. That generation is passing, along with the errors and distortions and disobedience that they have inflicted on the Church (and, let’s recognize, that they were the first victims of when they were younger).

Their time has already come and gone, and they know it.


#11

Nehemiah 2:17
Then I said to them, “You see the trouble we are in: Jerusalem lies in ruins, and its gates have been burned with fire. Come, let us rebuild the wall of Jerusalem, and we will no longer be in disgrace.”

This is why we need you. Converts like you who are committed to the Magisterium are taking back the Church and rebuilding its walls.

Welcome home! :clapping:


#12

[SIGN]AMEN![/SIGN]


#13

Report her to the priest. If the priest does nothing, contact the bishop. It is important that she does not infect others.


#14

Is it possible to find another parish to attend? One that’s more willing to obey the teachings of the Church and able to help you grow spiritually?

Scout :tiphat:


#15

I wouldn’t worry too much about someone’s opinion about genuflecting or receiving communion in the hand. Whether you do or don’t isn’t really going to affect your soul.

I would worry more about being taught the Truths of the Church. Your instructor should know which things are optional (you can receive on the tongue or in the hand) and which things aren’t (the Eucharist is is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ).

She should also be clear about what the Church actually teaches and her opinion about what it should teach. (And if she were teaching in my program, her opinion about what the Church should teach would stay out of the classroom.)

I strongly believe that my absolute responsibility as a catechist is to pass on what the Church teaches as fully and accurately as I can. But like I said, opinions about Scott Hahn and the like are not all that important.


#16

#17

Brother, have you noticed that the best apologists seem to be the ones who came to the faith after being something else? Have you also noticed that naturalized citizens have a better understanding of what it means to be an American than those of us who were born and raised here?
I would counsel you, as others have, to not let this woman deter you. In fact, as someone said, maybe she’s there in front of you so that you can see the need in your parish, and maybe to fulfill it. She obviously should not be a director of religious education, maybe you can step in at some point. Please bring these concerns to your pastor.
I’m in a similar boat, when I came to the Church, I had such a fire to learn that I had to do self-study, because RCIA was so soft-ball. Now, I’m one of the catechists. I’ve told the pastor and the RCIA volunteer lady that I’m there to help. The woman doesn’t teach any unorthodoxy, but she’s just so light in teaching.

We know that there are lots of holes in our Church, especially at the parish level, because of a shortage of well-trained priests, as well as a dependence on volunteers to do the work of the church. In that regard, you have to take what you can get. At my parish, our landscape was donated 25 years ago, but no one ever maintained it, except for a guy who spends about 3 hours a week working on our 11 acres. When we came along, we saw a need, and have been fulfilling it since. We’ve taken one portion of the grounds, cleared it, replanted it, and are maintaining it.

You have to find your hole and plug it. But don’t judge the truth of the Church by one or a number of her members. Even Popes are human!


#18

I do know what you mean. I only knew the Church pre-vatican II and when I went to convert it was after Vatican II so it looked really strange to me. I honestly think nothing of dogma was omited or changed, just the Vatican II mass looks a lot different.

The woman sounds odd to me. Given the lengthy time it takes to become Catholic, perhaps she was trying to make it sound easier. But in any case her comments seem strange. If the priest seems no different, then I’d be moving on.

You might need to shop around and find a church that fits. We all do that. Some things are more important than other things to folks. Some want a latin mass, some don’t care, some like a modern building, some like the old stone ones. Most important is I would say the priest. How good are the homilies, how well-schooled is he, where? That would be my determining factor for sure. Some like particular orders, Domnicans or whatever.

It’s too bad you have to take personal instruction. I definitely benefited from a large group. Good luck!


#19

:thumbsup: Thanks for the support and prayers. No doubt that this foum was instrumental in my conversion. I only made mention of Dr. Hahn because he is thoroughly orthodox and in love with the Magisterium, as I am and hope to continue to be. The fact that catholics dislike him for being orthodox is amazing.

I signed up for the full dose of one, holy, catholic, and apostolic. I will except none other, here I stand, God help me. :smiley:

I agree that this lady is way off base here. The horror of the matter is that she has been instructing there for a LONG LONG time. How many converts have signed on for something less than the truth? I don’t want to be the first to complain, or to give the impression that I came to divide and conquer right off the bat. I think I should lay low.

I have various ideas as to why God lead me to this Parish, and it is my dream to teach the faith to others and maybe enter the Diaconate, God willing.

The frustrating part is not her and me, really. She CANNOT discourage me, I promise you that. It is frustrating to find out that the first person that potential converts meet in this large parish is an unorthodox teacher.

I called the priest two weeks ago, and he informed me that he was leaving for a week retreat last week, and to get back to him. I called him everyday this week so far, and he was out of town for a funeral one day, and something other the next. I called him today and it was like he had forgotten me entirely. He told me he was too busy to speak today or tomorrow, would i like to schedule something for next week. I told him that I work on call and only know my schedule on a day by day basis. He told me to “keep trying” and call him later. I only need a couple of minutes of his time.

sshhhhheeeeessssshhhhhh.

I will carry on. I am already Catholic.

We are the Easter People, and Hallelujiah is OUR song!


#20

Don’t make this local parish your parish. Chances are if the priest is keeping her around, he agrees with her- or at least doesn’t have the backbone to correct her.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.